A reasoned viewpoint Tabithag and I do agree with you when you write, "There is simply no way of knowing yet, and quite honestly, I see little to be gained by speculating about it, because that kind of speculation is helping to feed the division in the country."
I am not interested in speculating about what will change in the future but I do see value in thinking about and discussing what has changed as of the morning after the referendum. I do think as I said above, that a lot of people haven't realized yet that the changes are not going to wait until after the official exit date, to start happening.
I understand why you might feel that you 'may feel ashamed to tell people that you are British.' But that is bordering on getting into a, is the decision a good or bad thing and a political discussion which I don't see any point in getting into. What's done is done. My reason for posting was to discuss what changes travellers or expats will have to deal with as of today.
Karazyal, travel to the UK for an American got cheaper, that's true. Of course the Brit restaurant owner who sees that translate into more business and therefore profits will then have to spend those additional profits paying for their holiday in Spain or Florida or wherever, which got more expensive by exactly the same percentage. Swings and roundabouts as they say. No net gain for the Brit, only for the American. So I see no 'positive' for the UK in that.
[ Edit: Edited on 28-Jun-2016, at 14:46 by OldPro ]
I understand why you might feel that you 'may feel ashamed to tell people that you are British.' But that is bordering on getting into a, is the decision a good or bad thing and a political discussion which I don't see any point in getting into.
For me, it is not at all about the politics, or whether the decision was right or wrong. Quite simply, as a regular traveller, it is THE most important immediate impact to me in my travels. It is far more important than the increased cost of travel. For example, I will be in the Baltic States for the month of July, and in Moldova, Ukraine and Poland for the month of October, and I truly do not know what reaction there will be. The ability to interact positively with local people is an important part of travel to me, and a combination of the decision that my country has made, and the vile racism that we have seen here in the last few days, may mean that much of that opportunity will be lost.
Yes I do expect Brit travellers, no make that primarily English travellers, may expect to encounter some of what their compatriats have been handing out in the UK. If you heard the speech made to the EU by the UKIP leader today, the embarrassment becomes even worse and the potential repurcusions for any English person travelling in the EU this summer even more worrying.
However, the speech on behalf of Scotland by Alyn Smith, made to the EU today, got an extended standing ovation.
So are you fortunate enough to be a Scottish person or unfortunate enough to be English?
My guess would be that generally tourists will not be hassled too much. I would also guess that package tourists might be more likely to encounter some payback than those travellers who go a bit more off the beach vacation path and interact with the local people more.
I do see another obvious immediate impact of the referendum being further division of the people of the UK into various factions. At a time when unity is more important than ever, what there is instead is even more divisiveness.
I am English, with the perhaps slightly mitigating factor of being from London, which clearly had a different opinion. I'm actually not worried about being hassled etc, as I think most people are not like that, and I don't believe that I would be the type of person that might lead someone to do that.
I would also hope that if I were to get into a discussion, people would see that I am disgusted by the behaviour and comments were are seeing. But I suspect that many people will be less interested in interacting to get to that point. And I can quite understand that. My country is incredibly divided, and there is a good chance of that becoming more entrenched, as well as the break up of the UK.
I'm not interested in arguing semantics over whether negotiations are 'upcoming' or not if they haven't been scheduled yet katzgar. I think what I am saying is clear. The point is that UNTIL the UK government gets around to invoking article 50 and the negotiations begin and end, is likely to be at least 2 years from now. People are talking about the 'negotiations' as if nothing will happen until AFTER they have occurred. That is simply not the case. Repercussions from the referendum are happening NOW.
There is an affect on travellers and expats right now, today. So it is not a question of 'all as per normal' until after the negotiations (whenever they take place) end. So you can't just 'scratch crotch' as you so elegantly put it katzgar, if you plan to travel in the next 2 years or are a Brit expat living in an EU country right now or a Polish expat(etc.) living in the UK.
I think a lot of people think there is no immediate affect and when they hear someone like Cameron, Johnson or whoever saying something like, 'no need to rush, let's take our time about this', they are not taking into account that there is an affect NOW.
It's only been 3 days and people haven't yet come to realize how much has now changed as a result of that referendum. Not how much is GOING to change, how much HAS changed. As of the morning after the referendum the world has changed as a RESULT of the referendum. It isn't a question of waiting to see what will change after the negotiations. The negotiations will simply end up producing FURTHER change. But travellers and immigrants (whether immigrants in the UK from other EU countries, or Brit immigrants currently living in other EU countries) are affected already.
well played, trump couldnt have fudged it better.
"well played, trump couldn't have fudged it better." What if anything does that actually mean? Communication only happens when the person you are addressing gets the message you were attempting to give them. I'm not sure what message you are trying to give with your enigmatic comment. That means YOU are not communicating clearly.
I'm guessing that you are trying to refer to my response to your original comment.
The upcoming negotiations between the UK and EU will be all important, until they are concluded everything is just scratch crotch.
In response I started by saying, there are no 'upcoming negotiations' scheduled yet. You seem to want to argue the semantics of whether there are 'upcoming negotiations' or not, while ignoring what I was really objecting to in your initial comment which was that, "until they are concluded everything is just scratch crotch."
Clearly an indication that you think nothing has already changed or will change before the eventual negotiations are held and end. That is simply not the case. There are factors that have changed NOW and that affect travellers and expats. If you want to comment on those changes, please do so. If you want to continue trying to 'score a point' over semantics, you are wasting your time and impressing no one except the person in the mirror. Am I communicating clearly enough for you?
[ Edit: Edited on 29-Jun-2016, at 09:34 by OldPro ]
You are arguing just to argue. I never said there are scheduled negotiations thats your addition, reread my post. The UK will need to renegotiate all and any trade deals and treaties with every country on the planet so yes negotiations are coming, alot of them. Might even include Jamaicas claims for reparations.
Katzgar, what did you mean by, " until they are concluded everything is just scratch crotch."
It's amazing how you can hang on to 'negotiations' while totally ignoring the real point. Everything is NOT 'scratch crotch' (what a disgusting phrase to use) UNTIL the official exit date.
There are repercussions happening right NOW. Your original comment obviously implied that nothing was going to happen until after negotiations. That comment was incorrect.
you again are making stuff up just so you can argue. My statement implied nothing. you decided to make stuff up. making up stuff up just so you can argue is just plain Trump.