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3 Weeks in Europe for the first time - Advice?

Travel Forums Europe 3 Weeks in Europe for the first time - Advice?

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11. Posted by Andyf (Travel Guru 640 posts) 8w

OldPro, maybe we can avoid the dick-waving antics and flame wars, eh? Give it a rest old dear.

12. Posted by OldPro (Respected Member 216 posts) 8w

So do I take it that you can't justify your statement that you would pick Scotland based on 'expense'? You have no example to give that would compare to the example for Switzerland that I gave?

As for 'dick-waving', I'd say that you tried to wave yours but it came up short.

13. Posted by Borisborough (Respected Member 430 posts) 8w

Quoting OldPro

What was the point you thought you were making with your comments Borisborough?

If you look at a site that lists tourist costs such as this one: http://www.budgetyourtrip.com/countrylist.php , what you will find is that the average tourist cost per day for the UK is $150 USD and for Switzerland it is $175 USD. I consider those comparable and when I then look at the far more important factors of what I am interested in seeing and doing, Switzerland wins hands down.

You're using a site to compare prices that is obviously wrong to anybody who's lived in the UK.

No need to tip, no need to buy water, accommodation (including breakfast) for two at GBP65 per night (search through Trip Advisor if you really want to), lunch and dinner (and beer) from Wetherspoons (three in the centre of Edinburgh), any other shopping at Tescos or a similar supermarket, car hire GBP20 per day from Celtic Legend.

Back to the original post and we see that Mdonovan0727 is looking for suggestions of where to visit in Europe; Switzerland is a great suggestion! So is Scotland! I'm sure she (or possibly he, but less likely) is intelligent enough to look at these suggestions and review the websites suggested but might not realise that some of these sites need to be treated with a pinch of salt, especially your "budgetyourtrip.com".

As for "Otherwise, all I read are a couple of people who don't know what is actually available in the countries in question." - I was born in the UK, lived there for over forty years and go back on occasions to visit and anybody can see that from my profile. I have a pretty good idea of how to survive in the UK.

14. Posted by OldPro (Respected Member 216 posts) 8w

Borisborough, all sites that list things like prices based on a visitor's viewpoint will get some things wrong. It doesn't disprove the overall average number that a tourist spends in the country. If you don't agree with the overall budget given on the site I linked, then provide a link to a site that YOU feel gives realistic numbers. I'm not interested in your pedantic attempt to argue about the site I linked. I am interested in showing the contention that Switzerland would cost a lot more and that Scotland would cost a lot less.

As it happens, I was born in the UK also and in fact, in Scotland. I have visited many times and also returned to live there from late 1999 to early 2006. I think I have a pretty good idea of how to 'survive in the UK' as you put it also.

So I will say again, if you want to take Andyf's side on the issue he raised of Switzerland being expensive and Scotland being a better choice if budget and expense are important, then give a real example of how you would get what I have shown is available in Switzerland. Not opinions, real facts.

Two people, one week, 3 star hotel, all meals included and transportation within the nearby area of interest. As I noted, somewhere in the Highlands or the Welsh mountains would be a somewhat comparable area at least for what the OP is interested in. All for $1300 USD or less.

You guys like to try to nit pick the price of a pint or resort to using language like 'dick-waving' and 'old dear' but neither of you can actually mount a coherent argument backed up by facts that demonstrate you can do better in Scotland than in Switzerland for the money.

Offer the OP an example of a comparable package in Scotland if you can. Otherwise, you're just blowing hot air.

15. Posted by OldPro (Respected Member 216 posts) 8w

By the way Borisborough, I don't think you can compare a Wetherspoon's pub menu to a 3 course dinner prepared by the chef at the hotel I linked. Maybe you need to take another look at the hotel site and photos of the meals. I can assure you they are as good as they look.

I can give you an example of a comparable package in Scotland based on personal experience. You don't get a 3 star boutique hotel for 65 GBP per night. But a decent and reasonably comparable guest house would be the Craigatin House in Pitlochry for which you will pay 100 GBP per night with breakfast. Then add what you think it would cost you to put together a packed lunch for 2 people for a hiking day, say 10 GBP and then add the cost of a 3 course meal from Fern Cottage Restaurant in Pitlochry which I know is comparable and will cost you around 50 GBP for 2 people without wine and would be quite comparable to what you would get at the Bellevue.

That gets you to 160 GBP for a room and meals to which you would then have to add something for transportation around the area. But the 160 already gets you 1120 GBP for a week which equals $1480 USD without transportation compared to the $1300 for the Bellevue.

So they are comparable to a degree but you cannot underestimate the value of the free transporation in the area that comes with the Bellevue package. All train, bus, cable car, etc. travel in the Davos-Klosters area is included in that package.

One example of what that means is that you can take the bus or train to Klosters, a cable car up the mountain, hike back across to a funicular station above Davos, the funicular down to Davos and the train or bus back to the Bellevue hotel. The cost of that bus/train, cable car and funicular ride for 2 people is zero with the transportation pass the hotel will give you.

A comparable would be the Nevis Gondola which will cost you 25 GBP (return they don't sell one way tickets) combined with the Cairngorm Mountain Railway which will cost you another 25 GBP. Then add a train ticket or bus ticket to/from a hotel somewhere.

So start adding some costs like that to any comparable combination for Scotland and see where it gets you. Don't worry about buying bottles of water or not tipping. You won't have any money left for bottled water or tipping anyway.

16. Posted by Borisborough (Respected Member 430 posts) 8w

Quoting OldPro

Borisborough, all sites that list things like prices based on a visitor's viewpoint will get some things wrong. It doesn't disprove the overall average number that a tourist spends in the country. I am interested in showing the contention that Switzerland would cost a lot more and that Scotland would cost a lot less. So I will say again, if you want to take Andyf's side on the issue he raised of Switzerland being expensive and Scotland being a better choice if budget and expense are important, then give a real example of how you would get what I have shown is available in Switzerland. Not opinions, real facts.

Two people, one week, 3 star hotel, all meals included and transportation within the nearby area of interest. As I noted, somewhere in the Highlands or the Welsh mountains would be a somewhat comparable area at least for what the OP is interested in. All for $1300 USD or less.

You guys like to try to nit pick the price of a pint or resort to using language like 'dick-waving' and 'old dear' but neither of you can actually mount a coherent argument backed up by facts that demonstrate you can do better in Scotland than in Switzerland for the money.

Offer the OP an example of a comparable package in Scotland if you can. Otherwise, you're just blowing hot air.

I have absolutely no interest in how much you paid for a special in Switzerland which was available for a certain week in July. And I suspect that the OPer doesn't either (although I may be wrong there).

The OPer was looking for suggestions of where to visit in Europe. Andyf suggested Scotland - a great suggestion! You suggested Switzerland - another great suggestion! The point that I was stating, which I think was pretty obvious from my post, was that the site that was suggested to compare the cost of different countries (by you I think) seems to be significantly biased against visiting the UK and I thought that the OPer ought to know that.

I have no interest in listing the particular costs of a week in the Grampians against a week in the Alps - life's too short for me to do that unless I actually wanted to see if a holiday I might take would be better in Switzerland or Scotland. But you seem to want a few facts - it's a fact that nobody in the UK has to tip so that could make the UK up to 20% cheaper than the daily cost listed in that website (or at least GBP7.87 cheaper). It's also a fact that the tap water in the UK is free and perfectly safe to drink and that would save another GBP3.10 based on that website. That puts the UK at about GBP101 per day. The website has the daily cost in Switzerland to be CHF175 which may or may not be correct. So the daily cost on average in the UK is USD133 compared to USD180 in Switzerland making Switzerland 35% more expensive than the UK based on your website with a couple of changes for tips and water. That might be significant to anyone wanted to compare tourist costs in the two places and might well be significant to the OPer

I do not have the need to resort to patronising anyone by using the term "old dear" (there's far too much patronising already) and I'd rather you didn't wave your appendage around - I've definitely no interest in that. If you want to continue with this, please PM me - the OPer doesn't want to see half a dozen pages of argument.

Post 17 was removed by a moderator
18. Posted by AdiBecker (Budding Member 14 posts) 8w

I suggest you to get a all the information where you guys want to go. Also your accommodation, reservation and your money that you will bring. always bring extra cash, credit card and Identification card for your safety.

Posts 19 & 20 were removed by moderators
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