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51. Posted by samsara_ (Travel Guru 5353 posts) 11y

I doubt it has anything to do with the Olympics, its just a coinicidence. Something like this takes strategic planning and the winner of the Olympics was too close to call right up to the end.

Tony Blair has been doing so much recently with respect to the G8 , and this is undoubetdly going to distract him from the major issues at hand. These terrorists are trying to shift the focus of the G8 from a global one to a political one. As Tony Blair himself said, it's very sad to think that they are trying to disrupt a summit where huge importantly issues like world debt relief and climate change are being tackled.

It's been said already, this is the world we live in now. No matter how defiant or resiliant ppl may be in the face of terrorism, it is a constant threat, and one that's very hard to fight.

Apparently, Ireland has a very low-risk of being a target, but I often worry about the fact that Shannon is being used continually as a stop-over for American troops going out to Iraq. Attacks like 9/11, Madrid, and London are designed to instill panic and fear in the very bedrock of western society, and I get angry with myself for even entertaining such worries, but I'm glad my brother doesnt work in Shannon anymore....and I worry a little everytime my Dad gets on a plane to the U.S.

So, as long as that is the case, these terrorists are never really far away....

52. Posted by samsara_ (Travel Guru 5353 posts) 11y

Just to add, I feel that these people are, yes in a way, "sub-human"...okay, so maybe that's not the most appropriate term, but they are certainly less than humane. (to put it very mildly..)

In my opinion, they deserve ignoble deaths for their cowardice alone. Ppl talk about the suffering caused to millions in Iraq as if it is the Americans "revenge" for 9/11. I listened to an Iraqi woman being interviewed on the radio one day, and I found her comments to be very telling. She maintained that just as bad (if not worse)as the suffering experienced by the Iraqis during the recent war, was the suffering brought upon followers of Islam everywhere - good, true, religious people, not misguided fanatics bent on terrorising the world.

An image stuck in my mind from the war in Iraq of an old woman wailing and crying in front of the cameras. She kept calling out to Allah and asking him where he was and why was this happening to her family. She had tears streaming down her face, and she looked so frightened and confused.......it struck me that the ideology of these headcases is so flawed. They do all this in the name of Islam, yet here was this poor woman who's faith was shaken to the point that it may never recover.

53. Posted by summer910 (Respected Member 1342 posts) 11y

Quoting cikusang

Love ourself, love the people around you, love the world - that's it,

Much as your words and ideals are very noble, it's very hard to love the people around you (or me) when among us are terrorists who have caused the deaths of people in London, Madrid, New York, and other places.

The terrorists may have a cause, but it's not a cause that most people agree with, and it should never become a justifiable reason to cause such mass destruction, on civilians.

54. Posted by mim (Travel Guru 1276 posts) 11y

Quoting samsara2

They do all this in the name of Islam, yet here was this poor woman who's faith was shaken to the point that it may never recover.

I think thats a very important point and a whole other dimension of the argument, about the lumping together of people from similar cultures, and things being "done" in the name of God or Islam that destroys interracial relations...

anyway I agree you should never talk Politics or religion with friends...

55. Posted by cikusang (Respected Member 1361 posts) 11y

Thanks for your opinion. My very idealistic and so-called noble thoughts do not come naturally only from myself. Yes, all of us hate those extremists and terrorists who killed many innocents but what IS THE ROOT OF ALL THIS TRAGEDY?

I am looking this issue in general view as a whole and it's no use to look from extreme angle - remember what had the former Pope done to the assasin? Remember what had Mother Teresa told us? Remember what Ghandi fight for and the way he 'fought'? Remember what is the most important insights of 911? Remember what is the lesson Tsunami 1226 taught us? Why there are still many people nowadays adore and salute at Mother Teresa and Gandhi and many more so-called 'noble' spirits? There are ordinary people as we do, my friend.

I am not giving any noble ideas as in fact, this is the only way; I believe all of us in TP loves peaceful life; this issue requires our inteligence but not sort of 'find out the king of the terrorist and punish accordingly' action would solve this issue; killing and warring would never proof to be the right solution as many well-known battles in history has told us clearly that hard-actions always 'leave something' for our next generation to uphold.

We should never felt upset against this issue...hate and distress are not going to help the situation but letting those sickos be able to recruit more 'stranded hearts' and transfer them into terrorist; instead we should stand stronger and continue loving them and educate no matter whatever happens...that's why a famous quote says this: education and love are everyone's last job in the universe before one dies.

Read an article saying the top 7 richest men in this world where they total wealth can support up to billions needy in Africa which less than USD1 wage they earn perday in average. I myself voluntar to donate 10% of my monthly salary to Tsunami Aids since Jan 2005 till now and my students keep on writing poems and donate toys and clothes and send to individual humanitarian aids centre from time to time but what is those top 100 richest men doing now? Those top 100 richest (and many more) could actually help to raise many things to help those victims in Tsunami-striken nations with simply 1 million from those 'billionaires' - SO NOW YOU TELL ME WHO ARE THE TERRORISTS? WHO HAS PLAYED THEIR PART CONTRIBUTING TO THE POVERTY OF THE WORLD?HUH? Should those rich people and many hidden ones be punished? Poverty will let one person 'totally-stranded' and it's so vulnerable to let those 'sickos' to control them with simply a slogan for the sake of so-called God or 'fight-for-reformation'.

Again,
love yourself, love the people around you and love the world.
Lee

56. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 11y

Quoting MASSAGEUK

too much mass media hype and government propaganda down your throat recently?

You've got a very good point there. "Terrorist", "freedom"," democracy" - I don't think people stop to think about what these words mean anymore. A "terrorist" is someone whose actions instill fear and terror - it's not a catch-all word meaning someone of one particular culture who hurts in the name of their religion. The word "terrorist" isn't used when referring to people like Ted Bundy, but by god did he spread a wave of terror!

I don't mean to belittle the horrible atrocities committed in the name of a so-called "greater good". I just want to point out that the people on the pulpits are spewing out words and catch-phrases that they presume we don't think about anymore. "You're either with us or against us" is my personal favourite. It makes NO sense; it's illogical. Yet it's repeated and believed and spread and printed and no-one gives it a second thought anymore.

What's happened in London is horrible - but it's true that our media coverage goes up the more "white"/first-world the country in question is. Three thousand plus people were killed during 9/11 and we heard about it for months and months and months. Six thousand + people die of AIDS in Africa every, single day, and I've yet to see that make the front page or top-of-the-news at 11.

57. Posted by Cupcake (Travel Guru 8468 posts) 11y

Your right Tina...I remember Rwanda...it didn't even make the front page here...it was 2nd and 3rd page news. And that was the first thought that popped into my head. If this had been some white/rich group...it would have been MAJOR news...but because it was a poor/black group..it wasn't worth a mention. It makes me sick and also makes me think that Lee is very much on to something...does it all just boil down to money?
I know every generation has said it about the next generation coming up...But I am scared for our future.

58. Posted by SkacoreUK (Full Member 56 posts) 11y

anyway I agree you should never talk Politics or religion with friends...

These are EXACTLY the sorts of things you talk about with friends

These cowardly bast**ds decide that they need to impose their twisted mentality of what life is about, onto those who feel that life is about the right to CHOOSE what you do and believe.

The thought that these people are missunderstood, and are fighting because they have no other option is a load of c**p. They are "brainwashed" by their relgious leaders, into believing that they are somehow serving the greater good.

This is the problem with extremist members of organised religions (Christians, Hindus, Muslims....the LOT). It gives them a reason to fight with no basis in reality, only "faith"....its something that is impossible to fight against, because the attacker always feel they are in the right.

As much as I agree that these cockroaches need to be wiped out, attacking them only gives them more of a "cause" for which to fight. We are now living in a MORE dangerous world than pre 9/11...and personally I believe that Bush's "war on terror" is as misguided, and futile as fighting for God.

I think that Iraq is what has really put the final nail in the tens of thousands of coffins that have been and are yet to come. It was the wests one chance to do things right, to show that our values ARE better than those held by the fundamentalist religious groups....and we cocked it up beyond all belief

This was not just an attack against the UK, this was the totally gutless mass-murder of people from all walks of life whether old, young, muslim, jew, athiest, black, white, australian, french, british or arab. Travel100 was right when he said that these people are sub-human...they are...and need to be recognised as such!!

Although I do, personally, have a problem with organised religion as a whole (not just the fundamentalist bits) I would never dream of telling someone that they CAN'T believe it. Part of my reason for travelling is to meet new cultures, understand how they live, and generally broaden my understanding of what it is to be human, and alive. These people so willing to indiscriminatly take life from others make me sick to the core, and I HATE them!!

Apologies if I have stepped over the line at any point....but I am totally fuming over this

59. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 11y

I want to add that I love this conversation. Many people stay clear of such issues. But I think it should be talked about more and in the open.

He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye. -- Buddha

What I want to do is draw some lines between the right and wrong. The Terrorists and Everyone-else. A common argument is that terrorists are such because they inflict terror into the civilian population and usually kill them.

As far as I can tell people think that this is something horrible and evil and we should "kill them all". This is illogical. I will discribe a situation and see if you can tell who is good and who is evil.

Thousands of tons of bombs were dropped on cities through out Europe in World War II. This particular story comes from a mother of a friend of mine.

Under the shroud of darkness all that could be heard was the thunderous sound of the bombers headed towards the city. No warning. No chance of escape. Normally the bombers hit "military instillations"; However, on this night it would not be so clean cut. On this night the payload of the war planes was a powerful form of incendiary bomb. The planes, instead of dropping the bombs on the city - circled the city igniting a wall of fire around the city limits. As the night went on the fire quickly consumed everyone and everything in the city.

I didn't use names, or forces or countries in that tale to make the point that it could and was both sides destorying thousands of innocent lives. This particluar city was in Germany not long before Berlin fell. Thew only reason that the Allies were not charged with War Crimes? Because they won. There was no good and bad sides to the war. Only bad.

The so called "terrorists" are using the "tactic" of terror to bring attention to their plight. Is their cause just? no. Is anyone's cause just? no.

Should we hunt and kill every person, out of desperation and lack of hope and understanding, attacks the masses which whom the basic problems all arise from? If so who would be left to live in this world?

It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell. -- Buddha

Not until ALL sides come to realise that relentless destruction harms everyone involved. The soldiers, the civilians, and all that will come after.

Everyone has made really great posts and are great to read and talk about.

60. Posted by SkacoreUK (Full Member 56 posts) 11y

Brendan..I agree completely that this is EXACTLY the sort of conversation people should be having.

Dispite the tone of my above posting, I do not actually believe that we must get revenge at all costs, all I am stating is that I hate these people with all my heart.

I agree with the feelings portraid by your above paragraph, and it is depressingly, all too believable. It is also a point that I had not really considered, I always felt that we did not bomb civilian targets in WW2.

WW2 is a tricky one, as I believe that I would have been more than willing to put my life on the line in order to fight the Nazis (although I would have asked to be put in as a medic or engineer, not as a soldier). In WW2 we had a specific enemy, with an invading force, unlike todays war where we seem to be fighting religious extremists, with no particular leader, or even any particular goal other than to terrorise people in sporadic displays of suicide bombings and kidnappings.

The war we are fighting at the moment will not be solved with any sort of invasion, or revenge attack. This sort of response will only create more angry young people ready to do the bidding of their religious leaders.

In the current "war on terror" the "good" side has killed far more civilians than all the suicide bombs and kidnappings put together. We have become the terrorists, however we have clear leaders, controlling what happens, we have someone to blame, and I hate these people as much as I hate the small fanatic groups killing civilians on buses and trains.

I don't have the answer by any stretch of the imagination, I just feel that more could be achieved by showing these people that we are good people, that we will not go down to their level, and that what they are doing is destroying a civilised people who want nothing more than to live happily...and we need to prove it, which is where we f***ked up so royaly in Iraq.

Again, apologies are in order for my (perhaps) mixed messages, and wavering point....I am still trying to figure the situation out in my head, and all persuasive arguments are welcome....I'm a hippy at heart

Oh, and "religion is the problem, not the answer"