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police shoot suicide bomber in London Stockwell station

Travel Forums General Talk police shoot suicide bomber in London Stockwell station

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21. Posted by applegirl (Full Member 144 posts) 11y

Quoting magykal1

the police are in a tough situation, what would they have done had they thought the guy had a bomb, and he did, but they didn't shoot him and he blew up the train?

Would you still be of that opinion if it were an innocent friend or family member of yours that just had been shoot by the police? I think perhaps not...
You can't put anyone in prison on mere suspicion so it can not be tolerated that someone is shot becasue of mere suspicion.

If they thought he was that dangerous why on earth didn't they catch him BEFORE he got on to the platform/train? They followed him all the way from his home to the tube after all.. I would appreciate if the police dealt with possible suicide attackers before they enter the station!!

I think it's absolutely horrendous that the police execute innocent people like this, they are ultimately there to protect us (or so I hope!)
These were plainclothes police, and according to the killed brazilian's collegue he was late for work: that's why he was running! A couple of weeks ago he'd been attacked by a gang of English guys, how was he supposed to know that these men chasing him with guns telling him to stop were the police?!

This is such a tragedy.

22. Posted by magykal1 (Travel Guru 2026 posts) 11y

Sure, I probably wouldn't be of that opinion if it had been a member of my family, but it's a damn good job that the victims of crime don't make law.

And I'm not sure about the circumstances in which the man was shot, and I'm pretty sure that they'll stay cloudy.

I'm just saying, hypothetically, that if I were a policeman, I had a gun, and I believed that a man was about to detonate a bomb in front of me, I'm not sure that I wouldn't shoot the man. I think the police are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this.

23. Posted by applegirl (Full Member 144 posts) 11y

Quoting magykal1

And I'm not sure about the circumstances in which the man was shot, and I'm pretty sure that they'll stay cloudy.

You can read a lot about the circumstances in which Jean Charles de Menezes was shot here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/ They really aren't that cloudy any more.

In one of the articles Alex Pereira, a cousin of Mr Menezes, said: '- - - police could have stopped Mr Menezes before he caught a bus to Stockwell from Tulse Hill, also in south London. - - - Police had plenty of time to stop him - if they were so afraid of a bomb, why did they let him get on the bus?'

I don't have a problem with the policy of 'shoot-to kill' per se, it's another matter entirely though when it is implemented the way it was last Friday.

This could easily have been avoided in my opinion.

24. Posted by bob flinn (Full Member 173 posts) 11y

Emotions are and will continue to run high on this subject. From all that has so far become public knowledge logic would suggest that the correct course of action was for the police to stop and question the man at the earliest opportunity. The risk of detonation a bomb on the bus was one they took; then they waited until they were certain he went into the underground station instead of being ahead of him and blocking his entry to the station.
It is possible that the policemen were well hyped up with adrenalin pumping by this stage and the firing of eight bullets into him might suggest excessive action. We certainly do expect that armed officers are in control and not given to making errors of judgement. We must be seen to support anti-terrorist action but the police need to earn this support.
Only time and a full and correct independant enquiry might get all the facts and examine them fully for the lessons to be learnt yet again at a dreadful expense of one life, let's hope there are no more victims.

25. Posted by tomjam (First Time Poster 1 posts) 11y

I just saw something which may bring a bit of humour to the subject:

http://www.travelslang.com/countries.aspx?cunk=1&ci=39&ciname=London&c=3

have a look - its priceless!

26. Posted by gnangarra (Full Member 59 posts) 11y

I think they (police) have the impossible job of performing the impossible mission.

We can sit here and debate the merits of their actions until the cows come home.

The real questions are;
are they doing the job that is expected of them?
are they human?
are they able to make mistakes (remember the opposite of this action could also be applied and a bomb could be detonated.)?
can we live with these mistakes?
can we help them succeed?
if you have a better solution lets here it?
finally in critizing them would you be willing to stand in their place?

Gideon

27. Posted by Peter (Admin 5789 posts) 11y

Hmm, those questions seem pretty easy to me.

are they doing the job that is expected of them? NO, certainly not
are they human? Of course, and like other humans they shouldn't be allowed to kill people randomly.
are they able to make mistakes (remember the opposite of this action could also be applied and a bomb could be detonated.)? Yes, but not if it involves killing an innocent person. Doctors face the same dillemmas.
can we live with these mistakes? No, I don't believe we should. It us up to us what we let terrorism do to us and I for one don't believe that paranoia is a good response.
can we help them succeed? In what exactly? Finding terror suspects? If we have some inside information on a terrorist attack, I guess we could. But I would expect them to do something before the person got on a train/bus/plane.
if you have a better solution lets here it? Don't shoot to kill unless you are CERTAIN the man has something. Shooting based on a hunch is pure stupidity.
finally in critizing them would you be willing to stand in their place? Absolutely. It is clear they didn't have irrefutable evidence and as such should never have pulled a trigger. It's quite simple really.

If we allow this kind of thing to be passed off as acceptable, we are quite simply allowing ourselves to be terrorised.

28. Posted by applegirl (Full Member 144 posts) 11y

Good post Peter.

29. Posted by bob flinn (Full Member 173 posts) 11y

When you are reading the apology from the police and the words they use about the stressful situation the officers were in, and the need to understand and support them, please do think about our servicemen in Iraq who are in this sort of stress all day and every day for six months on end, never knowing who might be a suicide bomber. Think about the fact that some of them, including their commanding officer, are being charged in our civil, not military, courts for having taken what may have been similar decisions.
Will the Chief Constable also be held responsible and charged, if ever any charges are brought against anyone?
Where are the pleas from politicians and authorities for understanding and support for out military forces for their difficult tasks and the decisions they had to make?

30. Posted by applegirl (Full Member 144 posts) 11y

I think this society is heading in a very sad direction if the public have to be 'understanding and supportive' of police shooting down innocent people.