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iraqi civilian deaths

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1. Posted by Peter (Admin 5813 posts) 11y

Better to be informed than not I say. Came across this site today, which maintains a tally of civilian deaths in Iraq due to the war.

2. Posted by ukmassage (Inactive 1052 posts) 11y

it was running from the beginning of the war.

on top of it 1 900 americans, brits, poles ... + 56 in London.

Bush's popularity fall lowest 34% and many see it as yet another Nam.

3. Posted by Sam I Am (Admin 5588 posts) 11y

Terrible numbers and I personally don't see at all how things in Iraq are going to turn around anytime (soon).

Any opinions on how to move forward from here?

Sam
ps. seeing as this discussion could get rather heated otherwise, let's stay away from the 'this should never have happened in the first place' comments and have a reasonable constructive discussion on this...

4. Posted by Peter (Admin 5813 posts) 11y

There is no real solution that I can see. And so, in my opinion, they might as well get out of there and stop making it even worse. Though it seems that if anything the situation in Iraq would be far worse than it was under Saddam as a result. Will it really get any better while the western troops are there though? I doubt that seriously.

5. Posted by daveh (Travel Guru 1027 posts) 11y

I think there will be problems in Iraq for quite a while, with or without coalition forces. If the coalition forces stay, the cycle of violence will continue. Once they pull out, the Kurds will push harder for an independent state in the north. The Sunni's and Shia's don't seem to be able to agree on anything under this new constitution they are trying to push through, so a civil war wouldn't surprise me. The only solution i can see is to break Iraq up into 3 different states, no doubt that will bring a huge amount of problems too.

6. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 11y

That reminds me of something I read in the paper just this morning, about Hurricane Katrina:

"This is our tsunami," Biloxi Mayor A.J. Holloway told the Biloxi Sun Herald.

I'm not trying to belittle the devastation or the grief that the hurricane has caused. I just think it's terribly unfair to compare 55 deaths from a storm that was predicted to 100,000+ deaths from a tsunami that came without warning.

It's as if the loss of 1 person in the West is equal to the loss of 2,000 people from developing countries. Strange math indeed.

7. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 11y

Quoting daveh

The only solution i can see is to break Iraq up into 3 different states, no doubt that will bring a huge amount of problems too.

Breaking Iraq into three separate states really isn't a bad idea... But, I'm afraid it would end in an Israeli/Palastinian type situation and dividing lines in constant dispute. Not only would the aspects of religious differences escalate the conflicts, now new border wars would be added to the mix.

As Peter said, there is no real solution to the problem. The Iraqi people are damned if we do (stay) and damned if we don't. The longer the troops remain, the worse the situation becomes. But, a pull-out will not be the "solution" that sparks a population to come together and self-govern effectively either. It is a double-edged sword. If forces leave, civil war is inevitable - but maybe that is what truly needs to happen for the Iraqi people to stand up and fight for what they want. As long as we are there, we are the excuse for the continued violence and even for Iraqi killing Iraqi. Take that excuse away... Well, another Saddam-type egomaniacal tin-pot dictator ceases the opportunity to "bring order" to the nation and Iraq will be no closer to "freedom" than before this all began. I'm afraid the military will be in Iraq for several more years - whether it is a coalition force or the US alone. (At least for the next three years, until we have our own elections and the "new guy" has to clean up the mess.)

8. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 11y

Quoting tway

It's as if the loss of 1 person in the West is equal to the loss of 2,000 people from developing countries. Strange math indeed.

I agree with that completly. It is nothing compared the tsunami of December. And in relation to that - more people were horrified with the deaths of the tsunami then all of the deaths in the Iraq War Part 2.

9. Posted by cikusang (Respected Member 1361 posts) 11y

It's as if the loss of 1 person in the West is equal to the loss of 2,000 people from developing countries. Strange math indeed.

That should be explained in a long long way.

and guess what? They are running for the race of overtaking each others on petrol consumption...Middle East consists of 1/3 petrol of the world and mostly are dominated by the strong.

10. Posted by IronChef (Full Member 1076 posts) 11y

I am sure that we are all considering the context in which things are said or quoted. I haven't looked into the quote from the Biloxi Mayor but I am sure that any human life is precious. Unfortunately, with the tragedy in the world nowadays many people are jaded to the scales on which this is occuring. And I would like to hope that the Mayor down there was saying this with a heavy heart for the people lost in the Tsunamai and for the lives lost in the Hurricane.

As for Iraq, it is unfortunate that the war even started. Why so many people have to suffer because of so few? The coalition forces can't pull out now. I wish another country would step in and take a little more control and that the US would pull out of an authoratative role. Maybe someone that the people of Iraq would be willing to work with a little more?