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Barbara Bush on New Orleans

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11. Posted by ukmassage (Inactive 1052 posts) 11y

so you believe the world should be still ruled over by profit ridden economy and corrupted politicians?

Do you really think that human nature is bad? Would you still say this same about your family, friends, neighbours and yourself?

12. Posted by IronChef (Full Member 1076 posts) 11y

I guess the real thing that has my feathers ruffled here is that a tragedy, anywhere in the world, is being used as a forum for to speak and post anti-Bush statements. If this discussion where to be held at any other time I, personally, would not be so upset. And probably much more open to the views being expressed. But trying to kick a horse while its down? Guess I always have stuck up for the little guy.

The world should be ruled by no one. No one person, save God, could possibly try and oversee so many people and situations. Look what's happening in America. Possibly one of the most free societies in the world and with so many people and so much going on - impossible to micro-manage. Through in a little corruption here and there and just plain incompetence and there you have it. Until we, as a society, come together and can intelligently and rationally discuss our future - the economic superpowers will continue to rule. Money makes the world go round!:(

To finish with a quote -
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, commited citizens can change the world" - Margaret Mead

13. Posted by coldwarspy (Travel Guru 1108 posts) 11y

Quoting Q_Zhang

Actually, no. Our forefathers did not die to allow us to be disrespectful of others or disregard social norms and rules. Our forefathers did die to allow other members of society to talk back to us, however.

I have no idea how this applies to what i said!??! Im refering to the above mentioned post about not speaking about these things in a 'Travel' Forum? How is speaking about what a Government Body (and yes you can count the First Lady part of the Gov't) a slanderous remark? oi.

Im confusded....

14. Posted by coldwarspy (Travel Guru 1108 posts) 11y

Quoting james

The world is full of death, destruction and injustices, but none of that seems to matter to those filled with hate towards the US.

WOAH! I am American and therefore have the right to slander and remark as much as I would like about the US. If I was Chinese, or Saudi, or [insert oppresive government here] then I would rant and rave, if I could, about that governement.

But because we have the Right to Freedom of Speech in America, Im goin to use that right wherever and however I feel necessary.

15. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 11y

Quoting MASSAGEUK

so you believe the world should be still ruled over by profit ridden economy and corrupted politicians?

I believe that that's an oversimplification of what a government is.

Do you really think that human nature is bad? Would you still say this same about your family, friends, neighbours and yourself?

I don't believe that human nature is either good or bad. I don't believe that what is perceived as good or bad about human nature are the only aspects of our nature that have an effect on the smooth function of society. My point is that human nature is complex and so far no social theory is sufficiently complex enough to really make it work perfectly. So mistakes are made. Corporations get away with murder. Wars are started. blah blah blah.....

Quoting jeffG

I have no idea how this applies to what i said!??! Im refering to the above mentioned post about not speaking about these things in a 'Travel' Forum? How is speaking about what a Government Body (and yes you can count the First Lady part of the Gov't) a slanderous remark? oi.

I was refering to your assertion that freedom of speech allows you to "criticise the Government in any forum, and any where, under ANY circumstance we wish.". That is infact not the case. To paraphrase my comments, there are many places where those around you do not want to listen to political discussions. Or more generally the exercising of "freedom of speech" is not appropriate under certain circumstances. The other people in these places have as much right to express their annoyance at you as you have to freedom of speech.

To relate this back to travel. Freedom of speech does not give me the right to disrespect things of cultural significance to other peoples while visiting their home. I find it disgusting that too few people learn this.

16. Posted by Cupcake (Travel Guru 8468 posts) 11y

VERY well said Q!

I agree whole-heartedly![i]
But the quote was taken out of context...the Bush family is from (and still resides in) Texas, her comment had more to do with her pride in being from and living in Texas.

Then again, who really believes everything they read on the internet? ;)

17. Posted by moscowmetr (Full Member 267 posts) 11y

Im Agreed,

Barbs is a nutbar.
Science and Nature hardly coexist in politics.
When on top you will receive the brunt of critisism. U.S, Bush as examples.

Q/Z, what did Kanye West say that was so insensitive? Missed that one.

I think that the whole anti-US sentiment stems from how they force feed everyone their so-far-from perfect political theory. Europe's version of democracy and governence works a lot better.

Holland, Germany, Switzerland and maybe even France should be the model for what the US showers upon the world. He's right, it´ll never be perfect..but the closest thing we have got.

Canada even has the right idea, I understand that in Ontario the courts allow family litigation to be resolved in a sort of religious court; Orth. Cath, Jewish and most recently Islamic...now thats some FREEDOM.

18. Posted by vegasmike6 (Travel Guru 3562 posts) 11y

Quoting moscowmetr

Im Agreed,

Q/Z, what did Kanye West say that was so insensitive? Missed that one.

Kanye West said on a fundraising telecast that Pres. Bush did not care about black people. That is a ridiculous statement to make by a role model to many black Americans. Why would any elected leader alienate 12% of the population? Yes, race is a huge issue in the US and will be a the foreseeable future. As it is in many countries. Look across your border to Germany and witness the tremendous problems and resentment engendered by the large influx of muslim refugees into that country. Racism exists around the world, the US is just one example.

19. Posted by moscowmetr (Full Member 267 posts) 11y

Quoting Q_Zhang

To paraphrase my comments, there are many places where those around you do not want to listen to political discussions. Or more generally the exercising of "freedom of speech" is not appropriate under certain circumstances. The other people in these places have as much right to express their annoyance at you as you have to freedom of speech.

Oh ya,

In this case, there are more then enough people here that actually do want to share their political views with like minded people on a forum that obviously covers opinions from all over the world and with other people that are known to have a special common interest beyond just debating politics.

Your point maybe correct. Walking into a synagogue at Bathurst and Eglinton and start loudy jabbering about how some of Hitler´s policies may have made sense, or stand in front of the Eaton Centre at Dundas and Queen on top of a soap box and share an opinion on why Blacks are conceived as lazy is outright insensitive and moreover blatantly stupid.

That argument shouldnt be applied here. To consider how long it would take to goto a seperate forum for music, spirituality, living conditions, weather, entertainment, travel, politics, environment and so on seem like all I would have time for all day. That why TP could be special.

20. Posted by moscowmetr (Full Member 267 posts) 11y

Quoting vegasmike6

Kanye West said on a fundraising telecast that Pres. Bush did not care about black people. That is a ridiculous statement to make by a role model to many black Americans. Why would any elected leader alienate 12% of the population? Yes, race is a huge issue in the US and will be a the foreseeable future. As it is in many countries. Look across your border to Germany and witness the tremendous problems and resentment engendered by the large influx of muslim refugees into that country. Racism exists around the world, the US is just one example.

well, Kanye is a helluva good producer..but that is kind of a meat head move.

I dont know, considering Berlin has a population made up of one third Muslims, albeit mostly from reformed Turkey. Im quite impressed with the level of civility found in the German capital.

Also, you will not see a terrorist attack on Germany where the hatchet men are Islamic fundamentalist. That appartantly is the top concern on the American agenda.