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Islam and terror

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41. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 10y

This isn't fair; I don't have time to read all of these posts at the moment, and I'd really like to be able to and so make a contribution.

I guess all I can say at the moment is that there are more similarities in people than differences, so we should concentrate on the former. We are born, live, breath the same air, and die; all of us.

Speaking of Coke; peace and Cola (Coke, Pepsi or Mecca Cola) to all of you

*the difference is the name, the similarity is that they are all colas*

42. Posted by TKolb325 (Full Member 197 posts) 10y

So Brenden, you are telling me, that even though I had no part in putting the current administration into power(EX. voted against Bush) and that I have continued my lack of support for the reigning administration, that I am responsible, specifically me, am responsible for the war. Because when you say "they" you mean me, an American, is responsible for giving power to the administration. Voting is the tool we use to try to shape the administration. If it doesn't work, we have very few other options, and they are much less powerful than the vote.

But let's just bypass that, and think about the current standings of America. So all of us Americans made a mistake and elected simple minded Bush into office and he made all these mistakes that make us look bad cause "we" elected him. Now we have had this epiphany and are upset that he has done something with his power that we don't agree with. So now we show that we do not approve. Because until 3 years from now, we can't do anything about it. (Not to mention, were in this mess and there isn't any way to back out gracefully.) So we show it.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

I don't know if that link will show up, but it shows that the majority of the USA does not approve of our president. So the infamous "They" has decided they do not like the administration that brought this war on. Maybe "we" messed up, but at least we are trying to rectify the situation by letting the world know that we are not happy with how Bush has conducted policy.

43. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 10y

Quoting Sam I Am

You can't honestly be serious can you Brendan?

Yes I do. When one is a part of a society they are responsible for it. Every action you take effects and plays a role in that society. Likewise every action you do not take (ex. not voting) effects and plays a role in that society.

Quoting TKolb325

...you are telling me, that even though I had no part in putting the current administration into power and that I have continued my lack of support for the reigning administration, that I am responsible, specifically me, am responsible for the war. Because when you say "they" you mean me, an American, is responsible for giving power to the administration.

I say say "they" because who else is there? The United States of America IS the people. A nation isn't it's government, it isn't the borders, the roads, the stop signs. A nation is it's people.

I have no say on how the United States is governed. All I can do is watch from the outside. You on the other hand are in the fold. You have sway and a voice within the United States. I am not saying the bombing of a hospital in Iraq is the fault of TKolb325... I am saying it is the responsibility of the people of the United States as a whole, as one nation.

You mention that voting is the tool for shaping the administration and policies, that's great but I don't think it applies as much today. As we've seen voting is becoming more and more manipulated. Lost counts in an entire state from and entire demographic, invalid votes in Florida because of "errors" (correct me if I am wrong, I am going based on the news sources). By this, there is reason to believe the voting process itself is no longer a valid representation of the will of the people. So now what? Blame the government? Blame the people that did vote for Bush?

Like you've shown the majority of the population does not support the current administration, so what are you going to do about it?

I think it runs deeper than voting. The major player in U.S. policy making is not the vote, but the "green back". The omnipotent U.S. dollar. The billions of dollars spent on products and services are what shape the U.S. and it's decision makers. Protect the bottom line and status quo at all costs. The president is the figure head of multi-billion dollar lobby groups and corporations. Applegirl, Coca-cola has everything to do with it. The administration you dislike and the beverage your drink are one in the same.

I am one voice on the outside, take it how you like, this is the way I see it and that is all. Have a nice night!

P.S. Peter good points about the contradictions.

44. Posted by cikusang (Respected Member 1361 posts) 10y

Yes I do. When one is a part of a society they are responsible for it. Every action you take effects and plays a role in that society. Likewise every action you do not take (ex. not voting) effects and plays a role in that society.

Good angle. You've seen the world from the holistic view. That's one of the Buddhism's concept 'cause' and 'consequence'.

Coca-cola has everything to do with it. The administration you dislike and the beverage your drink are one in the same.

Yes, Kris (embarked by Kris)is somehow applying one methodology of Metaphysics discipline -> implication towards metaphor. Does anyone of you remember how had Dynasty Qing fallen upon the seize of Western Imperialist?

Even one single thing created by human-being could have caused the whole empire to collapse! (It's widely applicable in socialogy/anthropology/psychology too)

I found many people (especially westerners) would think Buddhism is probably originated from Tibet (but have to admit its tourism industry has contributed to its widespread) and it's so common that many people do not really understand the root of Buddhism, according to one of my friend who puts so much effort endorsing herself into learning one of the oldest Sanskrit script (in order to comprehend the real concept and terms written in Sanskrit)and practising meditation and vegetarism as well as 'real actions towards environmental awareness and educating the young'.

"Rather than just siting here and pointing our fingers to whom should be blamed, advising one should go out and help educating people the importance of ecology and practising the truth of love NOW" - that's her quote.

Actually, this thread isn't the 'core' of what had caused our secularised world a fearful object; the act of terrorism isn't the 'right' or 'wrong' subject to be discussed but the 'cause' and 'consequence' are what we should emphazise.

Go on with your statements, Mr. Chocolate. You 'see' the problems, congrats. I'll try to get different viewers to go through your comments.

Appreciate for all of the concerns!

45. Posted by danalasta (Travel Guru 519 posts) 10y

Quoting cikusang

[quote]Actually, this thread isn't the 'core' of what had caused our secularised world a fearful object; the act of terrorism isn't the 'right' or 'wrong' subject to be discussed but the 'cause' and 'consequence' are what we should emphazise.

The "consequence" of the attack on World Trade Center...as my twisted mind interprets it....

Islam, Terrorism, Tourism & the World Trade Center

The futility of drawing clear boundaries between religion and tourism became evident in New York City in the days and months following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. Ground Zero, the site of the fallen World Trade Center towers, quickly became one of the most visited places in the city, but did people go there as tourists or as pilgrims?

The touristic aspects of the place rapidly took form after city officials recognized the need to accommodate the crowds of visitors by installing viewing platforms. Visitors sought the best views for their photographs, and tour guides quickly incorporated the site into their offerings; in fact, all sorts of vendors rapidly capitalized on the appeal of the place. Yet the touristic elements did not diminish the religious experience. Very few visitors to Ground Zero in the months following September 11 could resist the overwhelming emotional gravity of the place; prayers and offerings of condolence and remembrance were common at the site.

Indeed, the World Trade Center site remains a borderland of religion and tourism. Visitors there reconfigure their sense of identity in the wake of a collective trauma that they commemorate with intense emotional involvement. At the same time, however, they participate in an economy of images and experiences that holds Ground Zero in its commercial clutches and encourages visitors to leave their dollars with the purveyors of the sacred place.

46. Posted by igetlost (Full Member 89 posts) 10y

Ok i would like to name all the americans a know where personally involved in this terrible problem!!!!!!!!!

HA HA HA HA......i personally think generallisation is ok as it is impossible to get a list of whos wrong....
all this talk strays away from the fact US off shore prison camps are still in existence and the populus hardly acknowledges this. also AMERICA is at war with a CONCEPT!!!!!!!
TERROR is not a place country or person. What it is is a convenient blanket that allows all sorts of sweeping acts.
also it gives GWB all control of the country as in a state of war he does not answer to anybody.
GWB is a fundamental extremist christian( i dont believe he refers to himself as this though)

WOUTERRR
most terror attacks these days have an islamic background.....

your talking about a four year period in recorded history...
also the central premise of religions through out the ages has been to actively recruit follower though war and terror campaigns..

I dont think many people here actually understand that ,Yes it is terrible but it has always been this way...

someone earlier also said that you can not blame policies and governments?????
now thats just crap!!!!
When you force your lifestyle on people because you think its the best what does that make you????
Americans are very proud of Their democracy but i certainly would not take the democracy of a country that has only 2 parties....that hardly covers the basics.
only two candidates can run in your elections in a fair way( or at least only two are aloud debate).

This i am afraid is kind of a silly thread and will remains so if people fail to see the big.

and lets stop calling it islamic terrorism.as this breeds fear and lables people far more then saying "THEM".
and stop quoting the GOOD BOOKS!!Because anybody can read and interpert whatever they like!!!

What does Jihad mean??? look it up and see that the media version differs in the extreme.

This is a reasonable normal way to revolt against a supressor.Only this time it has gone global as only the very some minded believe in the borders of western society. we are rapidly becoming one.

i would also like to agree with SAM I AM in saying that the world is reliant on the american economy.....anybody disagreeing with that is being pig headed...the trickle down effect has benifited many.

oh and APPLEGIRL if you dont get the coke post(which in its own way is profound) then you
should not post as you are obviously hot under the collar and unable to develop, hearing only your own thoughts and not open to change.....

in summation, if you get blown up on your holidays dont hold the grudge, its just the result of a developing world trying to get along.......but not really succeding.
j

47. Posted by applegirl (Full Member 144 posts) 10y

Quoting Brendan

A nation isn't it's government, it isn't the borders, the roads, the stop signs. A nation is it's people.

Your overly simplified view made me think about: what exactly is the concept of a nation?
To me a nation is very much it's government, set of laws... A nation can have an evil leader but does that mean that the people are evil? No.
To be honest I think 'democracy' has become something very very shallow in the West. Most people are very far removed from having a say...
I don't even know how much power top politicians have these days, because they've sold off much of it to big fat corporations in my view. To be honest I think it's the big corporations which rules much of our countries - there is always this economic perspective to everything. But what about the human perspective?
Btw, the war in Iraq has been an extreme boost to the American economy/stock market - does that make war a good thing? I guess it is for the people whose main goal in life is to earn money. But then they have to disconnect themselves from the human tragedy that paid their earnings.

Quoting Brendan

Applegirl, Coca-cola has everything to do with it. The administration you dislike and the beverage your drink are one in the same.

FYI I never drink Coca-Cola. (And I don't by products from Nestle, I never eat at McDonalds etc. - I prefer water over Coke and cosy independant cafees/restaurants over chains)
I still don't understand what Coke has got to do with a discussion about war and terrorism though..?

I would love it if people in/from Arab countries could contribute to this discussion, I think it would add a lot and put a certain perspective on things being discussed here.
I'd like to once again recommend the blog from the Iraqi girl (she calles herself Riverbend) in Bagdhad on this forum
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
Her 9/11, Madrid, London hell has been going on for several years and it looks like there's no end to it...

48. Posted by igetlost (Full Member 89 posts) 10y

Applegirl your doing it again!!!!!
also neither you nor brendan got the simplicity in the coke post!!!he meant we're all the same regardless of what you look like (i presume, correct me if i'm wrong)
and actually the word nation does mean its people.....and the government is in fact just that,it's government.
one does not exist without the other.
would you like to hear from arabian muslims ,jews or christians.
or is the iraqy imput purely for sympathy.
and if only arabian muslim surely that shows unreasonable bias......?....

You write long posts but they are tedious and without thought.

also by saying
"a nation can have an evil leader" you are saying a nation is the people!!!!!!

Moral of this post: Think before you write,regardless of your point of view.

ps. i love retorts but think awhile first.

49. Posted by daveh (Travel Guru 1027 posts) 10y

Some very interesting views on this thread:

i've read a few books on Islamic fundamentalism, and secret wars governments have been involved in in the last 50 years, and just about all terrorist organisations have been supported by American, British and French money/weapons at some stage in there development. It was the Americans (via the Pakistan SIS) that gave the mujahadeen lots of money and weapons during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. A lot of these mujahadeen fighters then joined the Taliban/Al Queda. A lot of the suicide bombers from 9/11 were educated in universities in the west, and returned home thinking the west was an immoral and decadent society and were easily converted into Jihadi soldiers. There are lots of non-muslim terrorist organisations around, but Al Queda gets the headlines at the moment. Interestingly, about a year after 9/11 my friend was in a bar in New York and was asked to donate some money to the IRA!!!!!!!! So much for the war on global terror!!!!!

I think this discussion could go on forever because it is such a complicated issue, but it's interesting reading!!

50. Posted by applegirl (Full Member 144 posts) 10y

I seriously don't get what you're on about igetlost

Think about what it is you want to say before you post;)

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