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Traveling to Tibet?

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11. Posted by orienteyec (Full Member 84 posts) 12y

it's like......i heard Vietnam was very poor....ppl don't have food to eat there...but when i go there.....i found it's completely wrong......

and.....SORRY AGAIN.....i was temporarily mad.....cuz i hate ppl distort our goverment so badly......the fact is quite opposite....

anyway.....welcome u to visit Tibet.....and....find the fact by urself....u believe what u see rather than what u've been hearing, right?

(few roads?.. u know how many ppl dedicated their lives for building the roads? what's wrong with impoving their lives? do they have to live under savagery and slavery?)

12. Posted by Peter (Admin 5789 posts) 12y

Hi orienteyec,

You've provided an interesting discussion point.. thanks for the long list of projects you sent me with projects that the Chinese government has been involved in to better Tibet. I still don't understand how that makes the killing of 1.2 million Tibetans and the destruction of over 6000 culturally significant buildings ok?

http://www.savetibet.org/Tibet/Tibet.cfm?ID=195&c=22

There are people who deny the holocaust ever happened. Surely you don't deny that this killing of Tibetans ever happened? If they were so happy to be ruled by the Chinese, why did they all need to be killed?

You keep on saying I have to have been there to make any judgement on the situation, but surely reading the recent history of the country in encyclopedias (which I can't see how it could be disputed) would suffice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet

From what I understand there are more Chinese people than Tibetans in Tibet now, so of course the people there are content with the situation. I have to ask you, have you spoken to any of the Tibetans in exile?

I'd appreciate it if you were a little more considered in the forum, where everyone simply partakes to enjoy discussing travel. To say 'Free Tibet' is hardly an offensive thing and you could have answered in a far more friendly manner that would have possibly even made people consider your points to have some validity. Answering in anger only serves to make your arguments look hotheaded and biased. I have edited one of your posts somewhat, as it is a little too personally offensive (see forum rules) to be allowed here.

Finally, it would be worth mentioning that I agree with you entirely on China's rich cultural heritage and their power as a nation. They seem to be developing very well and I look forward to visiting there one day hopefully. It's just unfortunate that they had to destroy another culture's heritage along the way.

Please note that in my previous post I asked for references with your arguments.. I asked this in all friendliness and with the assumption that you would be able to provide them. If you care to respond to this thread I ask that these references are provided. Any posts without references from now on will be deleted.

Peter

13. Posted by orienteyec (Full Member 84 posts) 12y

i admit that 50 years ago....we "occupied" Tibet.....but why? Tibet is a part of China, even DALAI LAMA this name was given by Chinese king...and a part of China was under slavery and we need to rescue ppl there ...a lot of Tibet ppl put Chairman Mao's photo with Dalai Lama or Banchan(other spiritual and political leader in Tibet) together, they don't even know who our president is at present, but they take Chairman Mao as their god....why? u can think it by urself....

and.....i saw the website u provide....they just put lama's picture on it and annouce that she/he suffers.....? do u think it's possible that a 1.3 billion ppl's responsible goverment is able to do things as cruel like that? don't u think it's suspicious? if our goverment is like what they describe....why do we keep on helping them to reconstruct their temples ? they don't we just destory them? there is a Tibet temple which called YongHe Gong right in the center of Beijing!!!!!!!!!

why don't u see the website www.tibet-china.com...there are some positive....

and....the question why don't i talk to somebody in exile? why should i? they are living luxury lives overseas ..what they should do is just receive order and destory the peace bewteen Han Ethenic and Tibetan Ethenic

u know all the infos from READING..... i respect ur views... but VIEW IS VIEW, FACT IS FACT.....and facts have been distorted....why don't u talk to ppl who have been to Tibet? they will tell u the FACT....it's better than sitting in a chair and reading websites which are not TRUE!!!

again......i apologize.....i know my manner isn't friendly...but...if u see a really good person(or goverment) is treated so unjustly, what will u do? don't u get mad immediately?

14. Posted by Peter (Admin 5789 posts) 12y

Hey Orienteyec,

I'm afraid I'm pretty unsure about what to look for on that website -- it seems to be just a tour company with some information about trips. Can you point me to a specific page??

What I find interesting, is that you attach so much value to having been somewhere and yet attach no value to talking to those who have been in exile. I don't see how going somewhere will automatically authorise you to speak in facts, rather than views. I admit that my views are only views (and perhaps distorted), but I cannot see how your views have been elevated to facts

I find it very possible that a government of 1.3 billion people can do such cruel things. In fact, I find it very possible that any government could do such cruel things. Perhaps they are trying to better the lives of Tibetans now - this can only be applauded, but what has happened in the past also must be reconciled. Just like the government in Australia has many things to reconcile about its past, so does the Chinese (and the US and Britain, etc..)

QUOTE: 'if u see a really good person(or goverment) is treated so unjustly, what will u do?'

Indeed, that is why I joined this thread, because I found your treatment of mim quite unfair considering she was only trying to answer the original question in an honest manner. You may care to note that she did meet Tibetans in exile who she has information from. I don't see why that information would be any less factual than from the Chinese or Tibetans inside Tibet.

It's no problem having a political discussion, but try to keep it nice people..

Peter

15. Posted by orienteyec (Full Member 84 posts) 12y

www.tibet-china.org
click english version....

history shouldn't be forgotten.....like what Japanese has done to China and they've never admitted....but....what we think is: we should see the future...and we should admit the good things have been done....

16. Posted by orienteyec (Full Member 84 posts) 12y

So.......why don't Britain goverment let North Ireland to be free? becuz....the unity of a country is the most important thing...

if our goverment did the cruel things to them.....i believe they no longer doin' it ...becuz.....from what i experience....Chinese goverment is one of the most responsible goverment in the world:)

17. Posted by orienteyec (Full Member 84 posts) 12y

again.......i apologize.....i am just a girl who got badly homesick ...for some reason i became really emotional these days....and...i really really really miss Beijing....Beijing is such a beautiful place:)

and....i think the political systerm which has been using in China for many many years is stil goin' very well....why do ppl always being so critical towards a county which is different from them? People in either Tibet and other places in China are living very well ....there are 56 ethenics in China....we are all staying peacefully and happily...we are comefortable with "one party"....we don't have to concern politics too much....what's wrong with it?

and....the tibet "goverment" in exile wants to go back ...don't they? becuz Chinese goverment becomes better and better...i think they are much more tolerant and responsible than they used to be---that's a fact that they world admits......even Dalai Lama doesn't think America should judge Chinese politics right?....and there is Banchan(another leader of Tibet) advocates Chinese goverment ......i think we are doin' very well.....the outside voices are not true....or bad things have already pasted....anyway......inside of Tibet, ppl are living very well, their religion is fully being respected... i hope u can believe this...

18. Posted by orienteyec (Full Member 84 posts) 12y

again.....i find i am really pround of my country and my goverment....even the press distort they so badly , they are still sticking to their beliefs and contributing all the strength they have to the ppl:)

Peter and Mim:) u guys really should go to China:) i have a lot of foreign friends who are living in China or have been to China, this country and ppl's lives or human rights are much better than what they heard...U will be really surprised:) China is such an amazing land:) so is Tibet:) all the snow moutains...lakes....and ppl:)....i always recalled when i was walking inside of Yulong snow moutain....it was wonderful:)

19. Posted by Peter (Admin 5789 posts) 12y

Hey orienteyec, I do hope I can visit China one day.. I have a few friends who have visited there as well and have said it is a very interesting place. I still am not convinced that the Tibetans are particularly happy about their situation, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.. maybe I can visit one day and see for myself. As for what those in exile say about the past and the possibilities of returning, you may want to refer to this website: http://www.tibet.com/WhitePaper/index.html

Now maybe we can get back to the original question and let this diversion rest; How to travel to Tibet from Thailand??

Cheers, Peter

20. Posted by orienteyec (Full Member 84 posts) 12y

i just think that....:D why did English/French ppl occupied Austrilia and Canada? why did they kill millions of native ppl and destoryed their culture? why don't they give Astrilia and Canada back to native ppl?

Tibet is a part of China since thousands years ago...compare to what English/French did, i think we just protected the unity of a country