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BOYCOTT ALL TRAVEL TO SINGAPORE

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151. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 10y

I think you got it! that is what I was trying to get across. :)

152. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 10y

Some of you are going to be too young to remember this, and others may never have been Star Trek (the original series) fans. But, even though the episode related to wars, rather than punishments, this discussion reminds me of one particular aspect.

On 2 warring planets, the killing had become sanitized. Each planet would lob imaginary warheads at the other and in turn, it would be calculated that "x" number of inhabitants would have been killed. Each government would notify that number of their citizens, who would then report for extermination. Clean, simple, understood. Ultimately, good ol' Capt. Kirk destroyed their sanitary killing machines so they would truly understand the bloody horrors of war and work towards peace.

Our system of justice is slowing beginning to sanitize capital punishment. Lethal injections versuses the electric chair or hanging is clean and simple - no fuss, no mess. Trust me, if I were going to commit a crime and knew the penalty was death - lethal injection ain't a bad way to go. If we are going to continue to support the death penalty (and I am still sitting on my pole), then maybe barbarism (drawn and quartered, etc.) is the more effective deterent to crime.

Before everyone jumps on me for it, I have used this as a worst case scenario. I would love to see a world without the need for capital punishment, but it won't happen in my lifetime. But santizing it makes it more palatable to accept and easier to dole out.

Here's another scenario - since I'm pontificating... Let's say you have someone who's sentence of death has been commuted. While sitting on Death Row, that person has been in (basically) solitary confinement. Now, with a life without parole decision, that person is placed back in general population. There are going to be 2 choices - either be the tough "take no sh*t" inmate, or become someone elses' nightly playmate. No, it doesn't happen to everyone, but it happens more often then we care to accept. A death row inmate will have a certain "stigma" about them that will be hard to dissipate.

Isa hands back the soapbox so someone else can reach the glass because Isa now needs a drink.

153. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 10y

Nice to see you taking a tone that's more helpful for discussions.

Quoting Brendan

I'm not sure I know what you mean by - "Sounds religious". I guess I didn't include any religions in my description, I should have. We - as humans - keep saying we are progressing, technologically and spiritually but don't really know towards what (unless it is all in the name of survival).

Just the beginning of a thought. What your asking for seems to me be a question of understanding rather than physical makeup of the world. Let's start with definitions of the tools we have to figure things out and work our way through this.

Religion: Institution to express belief in a divine power. Institution is a loose word. One person could be considered an institution. And divine power could be broaden to mean anything. In this case I'll substitute your question of "where are we headed". So we have "someone(or plural)'s belief in the abstract place where we're headed".

You also have closely related to it, philosophies. Philosophy: A belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school. The rational investigation of questions about existence and knowledge and ethics. Any personal belief about how to live or how to deal with a situation. Closer to what you are after (so maybe not just a religion).

And since you've included technology. Science: A particular branch of scientific knowledge. Ability to produce solutions in some problem domain. Don't really like this definition. A branch of something just means recorded data and conclusions made by people. The ability to do something isn't the same as having an answer.

Not really helping much other than to say what you're looking for is some sort of philosophy. I would simplify things and say, science and religion feeds into philosophy (in a broad sense anyway since I believe science split from philosophy awhile back). I would also say that science (in its present state anyway) is useless for looking at non-physical things such as justice and morality. So we're looking for an accepted belief (perhaps based on religion) of where we're headed. Or "an accepted belief of a just and moral society".

This is probably not a complete discussion, but with every machine, every law, every pollutant, every hanging, every thought and basically everything we do, we get something as a result (call it information, call it entropy, I'll just call it stuff). That feeds into our society. Somethings may be lost, but if we assume we're working "towards" something rather than "away" from something where things are lost, we can assume (and this is just an assumption) all of that something we've created feeds into our philosophy. Which is an accepted belief of a just and moral society (Of course, if we go "away" from it then we have a lack of belief which is a belief in itself).

In other words, if you put an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters in a room, you'll eventually write the world's greatest novel.

154. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 10y

Quoting Isadora

On 2 warring planets, the killing had become sanitized. Each planet would lob imaginary warheads at the other and in turn, it would be calculated that "x" number of inhabitants would have been killed. Each government would notify that number of their citizens, who would then report for extermination. Clean, simple, understood. Ultimately, good ol' Capt. Kirk destroyed their sanitary killing machines so they would truly understand the bloody horrors of war and work towards peace.

Lacrosse was invented by some bands of the north american indians for this purpose if I'm remembering correctly. I've always wondered what their society was like. Did lands, goods and people change hands at a whim?

155. Posted by Cupcake (Travel Guru 8468 posts) 10y

I have to say, I am enjoying this thread....I tend to feel 'closest' to Q's opinion and the farthest from B's and Evan's...does that change how I feel about B? Never. He is still my friend and I enjoy the hell out of discussions with him. He makes me think of things in a different way. This really has been enlightening. Has it changed my views? No. But it has made me ponder a bit more, and how can that be bad?

Post 156 was removed by a moderator
157. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 10y

Quoting CupCake

...it has made me ponder a bit more, and how can that be bad?

Great! That is all I intend, I don't have this grand idea of changing everyone's mind about... everything. I just like people to think about things from a different and perhaps new angel.

Q, I will reply to your post in a bit.. I need to read it again to take it all in.

STS, Get a room...
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or invite me... (Just kidding for all the non joke takers) ;)

158. Posted by Cupcake (Travel Guru 8468 posts) 10y

I have always secretly (and not so secretly) suspected that you were a tart. ;)

Post 159 was removed by a moderator
160. Posted by steen1976 (Budding Member 26 posts) 10y

Tough sh*t. He knew the punishment for what he was doing. How many people would have died due to addiction to the filth he was bringing in?

Bloody hell, wasn't Australia going to blow up a ship full of people tying to get into Oz a few years ago. They can hardly cry about one of theirs being hung for carrying that amount of heroin.

Probably all discussed before but I'm going through all of that

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