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71. Posted by Cupcake (Travel Guru 8468 posts) 10y

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........Well in my perfect little world it wouldn't be necessary...but if someone killed my child...I wouldn't have to wait for the courts to act.....

72. Posted by Peter (Admin 5791 posts) 10y

Much the same as Brendan and STS here (noticed a trend so far ;)?).

To me, one biblical verse always springs to mind, "He who is without sin should cast the first stone" (roughly). Essentially saying that no human being is perfect enough to execute that level of judgement. And I believe that thought still rings true today, even out of a religious context. Capital Punishment is the ultimate of arrogance.

Who are we to judge which crimes deserve to be punishable by death?

We all can have feelings of revenge and hatred, but whether it would be satisfying to us to act on those feelings or not is besides the point. Who knows, maybe the remorse-less murderder was also acting out of revenge? Perhaps for something seemingly less important, but nonetheless, based on the same principle of satisfying one's hatred for another.

73. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 10y

Quoting CupCake

if someone killed my child... I wouldn't have to wait for the courts to act...

Well you would be killing someone else's child.

74. Posted by Cupcake (Travel Guru 8468 posts) 10y

That doesn't change how I would feel if MY child is taken from me.....I would never get to see them grow up..or hug to them......see them graduate, get married, have children...anything!....They don't deserve to take another breath let alone have free legal help, free medical, free roof over their head, free tv, free education...better (and free) food then the school lunch programs....that is all paid for with my tax, I would not allow it to even make it to the courts...and I am sealing my fate?, probably, but then again I have never lost a child and neither have this is all hypothetical.

75. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 10y

Quoting CupCake

That doesn't change how I would feel if MY child is taken from me...

To me it is about being empathetic. You kill the killer, how do the parents, children, and family of that person feel. The world isn't about you (the all encompassing "you") and your feelings. Where would we be without everyone else?

No problem can be solved through the same level of consciousness that created it. -- Albert Einstien

76. Posted by SeeTheSky (Respected Member 558 posts) 10y

if your child was killed by someone, and you in turn did the only thing you could think to and kill that man, would you accept the justice of that man's mother's right to kill you?.. (or closest living relative)

i know that it seems so impossible to deal with. but, theres no solution, the world isnt perfect, and thats what makes it beautiful.

the bottom line is, either you die first, or you're going to have to watch people you love die. death is inevitable, and in truth, its the only thing that really makes life meaningful. if we couldnt lose it we'd never know what life really meant. think about how meaningless and utterly redundant existance would be if people didnt die. if you really think about it, it would be the worst thing i could imagine. immortality? no, id rather die right now.

all this only drives me ever forward to make my life everything i could ever dream. this concept is what should drive us to live our lives by every whim and belief we can come up with. becuase its our lives to live.our choices to make. the future.

i had experience where i was sure i was going to die when i was 13. after this, i realized the farther from danger and more in comfort people get, the more they forget that they have to live their lives, their dreams, right fuckin now becuase you have no time to wait.

therefore no future is worth wasting, and no future should be taken from them, becuase everyones death is their own ending to their own story, and no one has a right to decide it for them.

so take care of those around you, live by whatever silly dream or belief you can come up with, becuase you dont have the time to wait.

77. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 10y

There's nothing really wrong with revenge. It's nature's way of ensuring that there are consequences to certain actions. And consequences are important to the balance of nature. I don't think anyone should feel ashamed to say they want revenge.

Again, I'm always looking for solutions. Obviously, we can not do nothing if a murder is committed. If you do not support capital punishment, what punishment do you support and why ?

78. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 10y

This sounds like a really silly question, but what was so bad about taking the life of Van Nguyen?

Is it because we are taking away his life, or is it because in sentencing him to death, we are effectively sending him to a place (death) which is totally unknown to us who are still living?

Let's face it, we are all afraid of dying (to varying degrees), and regardless of what our religous persuasions might be, we ultimately don't really know what happens to us when we die.

I'm sure we can all imagine ourselves in his shoes; the hangman placing the hood over our heads, the noose, the signal, the brief feeling of falling, the noose taking hold, the momentary pain, then....what?

Is it the "what" that makes the death sentence so unpalatable rather than the taking of the life?

79. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 10y

Quoting SeeTheSky

yes.. ive thought about it. and, well. it seems to make sense, when said like that, but really i could never do that. it seems hard to explain, but i just cant function in such systems or organizations. i have a hard enough time just being a human trying to find my way in society. so much of me just wants to wander and be homeless and sleep in woods and crazy shit like that. the one thing that seemed best for me in this situation was to be a writer, becuase i could openly protest what i thought was wrong, and be opinoinated in general. here and there i still have dreams of being a ghandi or MLK jr esque public speaker if i was a writer. and who knows, i might still take a shot at it. i just have to decide what i want to do... im torn over several major philosophical ideals right now and im not going to go over them cuase it would take and hour, and quite honestly, i, as everyone, still have alot to figure out.

or i could just be selfish. ah well, everyones gotta decide for themselves.

Yup, it's one of those things you have to decide for yourself. Chasing ideals are good. I just spent 6 years of my life doing some of the best work I've ever done because this guy showed me how to ask a better question. But take it from me, you have to be absolutely passionate about it or you'll never make it. It's your life, don't settle for anything but the absolute best.

80. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 10y

Quoting Brendan

Isa you say there should be death for someone who commits murder without remorse. Do you have a remorse-o-metre? Also there are plenty of cases of people being wrongly accused and sent to the gallows. That fact unto itself discredits the system right there, cut and dry. Capital punishment is a knee-jerk reaction to not only keep people in control, but to also appease them.

Wrong - what I said was this:

Quoting Isadora

I believe there are crimes worthy of the death penalty, such as murder without remorse.

I also said:

I live in a state where the death penalty is legal, though there is a moratorium at this time. (Recent DNA testing done on samples from old (closed) cases have proved some inmates innocent of their crimes and a cause for their release.)

I do not have a remorse-o-meter and did not claim to have one. Nor did I say there should be a death penalty. I do find our court system flawed enough at this time to throw doubt into many of the cases punishable by death. It is one of the reasons I agree with Illinois' moratorium presently. I am not a proponent supporting either side of the issue. I do think each case needs to be considered individually and that (again) certain situations are worthy of the punishment. There really are people out there who do not think twice about taking another person's life while committing a criminal act. And, they do not feel remorse for their actions at any time after the fact. In such as instance, I am hard pressed for a reason to spend thousands and thousands of taxpayer's money to care for that individual for life. Sparing his family the agony of his dying for his crimes - well, maybe the criminal should have taken his family into consideration prior to breaking the law.

It's not a black and white issue. And, there are criminal acts where the death penalty is the punishment. I also understand there are people who, for circumstances not in their control, end up in the system and facing said punishment. This alone is reason enough to evaluate each situation individually to reduce the number of wrongful executions and just maybe end them completely. I don't know and don't claim to have an answer.

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