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Why is the Swiss passport "the gold card of citizenships"?

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11. Posted by dazer (Budding Member 2 posts) 10y

Hey Zoom,

Was actually joking about the swiss passport bit as I'm quite happy with my EU one thanks!

12. Posted by moscowmetr (Full Member 267 posts) 10y

Quoting Zoom

Before we all start thinking how great Switzerland is ask yourself why is Switzerland's so wealthy and living there is SO expensive. Is it through massive exportation of Fine Chocolates and the Worlds Best Watches ? If that was your guess try again. All the money the great ski-ing there brings in ? NO.....The Swiss Banking system is the answer (it's private, numbered accounts and secretive banking in general). What's wrong with that? Because Switzerland is willing to take dirty blood money from every world wide Drug Dealer, Arms Dealers ("Masters of War"), Terrorist, Corrupt Politicians and World Leaders that are skimming or stealing the peoples money to set themselves up for latter years when they are kicked out of there own countries and sent into Exile and every other thief and scumbag that's willing to ruin our world just a little bit more so they can live SO FINE. There was a big scandel years ago how the Swiss Banks had done business with the Nazi's during WWII taking in things of worth stolen from the victims of the Nazi's. Nobody there would even talk about it. I was there and I tried. All I heard is "We don't talk about such things". Many of the most negative, horrible things that go on on this planet could not happen if the evil people doing these acts had nowhere to hide their money. It's a VERY important aspect for them to succeed and Switzerland gladly helps them out. So Switzerland doesn't dirty it's hands in ugly wars and drug deals, it just gets blood on them later when it hides the cash from all these horrible acts. So that's the story, enjoy your next trip to Zurich (you won't see me there) zoom PS. All this is true so people should know. It's not an attack, it's just facts.

Oh my...Can I seriously have just read a rant of suspect foreign policy coming from an American. you have got to be joking me. It is amusing when people have such a ridiculous take on the "facts".

Indeed..amazing a country which is completly land locked, with no natural resources, limited agriculture and mostly a landscape of mountains and a population of only about 7 million can be so wealthy.

It called using your head. Banking, pharmaceuticals, and not getting involved in every ridiculous conflict in every corner of the world may help.

If you had any money you would probably appreciate the banking practices of Switzerland. Never let no one know how much dough you hold. Second, during WWII I would love for you to imagine being completly surrounded by a Facist war machine, that in less the half a year absolutly flattened most of Europe.

ahhh, would be a good idea to say. "Hey you want to take us on Germany? We have a couple mountain sniper farmers that will do some okay damage to your Tiger tanks".

Swiss would heave been anilated had they not remained neutral and maybe done certain favours for Germany. Albeit, we are both German speaking countries with a similar lifestyle. Remind yourself that a large percent of Germans opposed the war, but if you spoke out...then you were in jail. Get off your righteaous high horse an really analize the facts.

Im an American for ONLY for business reasons...

What a hypocrite, zoom. Take advantage of business practices in a country whos governament should be on trail for war crimes (at your own suggestion). Especially the most powerful country in the world and the one that apparamtly should be showing the example...but alas that is not how the real world works.

Swiss is a great place to live. I never been in a country that takes better care of the environment

13. Posted by Zoom (Full Member 131 posts) 10y

The difference between me and you is I can tell the truth about my country - right or wrong, good or bad. My country isn't me. I just happened to be born here but I don't defend it blindly. Face up to the truth, that's all. You didn't really address my main point. The Swiss banks (along with a few other countries) take in money from every major drug dealer, weapons dealer, corrupt dictators, terrorist groups, etc so the people can live a very sheltered, protected childlike life (I've been there many times, I've seen it over and over).That's the trade off they make. Why are you so in denial that you can't admit the truth. A lot of money protects anybody but it all depends on what you're willing to do to get it. It's SO amazing watching you act like that's not what's really going on when that is what's really going on. Enjoy living there but just make sure to step around all the blood because it's everywhere, from Hitler to Al Qaeda. Do you think a war, a terrorist attack is just people and weapons ? without money you have no war, no terrorist attacks. Who takes care of the money ? Look out your window for the answer. You say your country doesn't get involved in any wars yet financially it's involved in EVERY war and terrorist attack. When a terrorist nuclear weapon finally blows up one of the worlds great cities be proud that your banks helped make it happen. Zoom "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - Paul Simon

14. Posted by Sam I Am (Admin 5588 posts) 10y

Quoting Zoom

... (I've been there many times, I've seen it over and over).

Quoting Zoom

So that's the story, enjoy your next trip to Zurich (you won't see me there) zoom

I think reading those two underneath each other illustrates this quote even better:

Quoting Zoom

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - Paul Simon

Imo, it's just stupid to say you won't go to a country if you don't agree with some kind of political/legislative stance they have there. That would make every country in the world non-visitable, as I could certainly find something I didn't like if I looked into it. You travel to a country to experience it's people, culture, nature and their way of life. Even if you don't agree with it, what kind of person are you if you can't look past that and enjoy the beauty of the country and it's people!

Quoting Zoom

You didn't really address my main point. The Swiss banks (along with a few other countries) take in money from every major drug dealer, weapons dealer, corrupt dictators, terrorist groups, etc so the people can live a very sheltered, protected childlike life

I don't claim to know everything about Switzerland, but from what I understand they are no longer the haven that they have been in the past for this kind of transaction (the internet offers TONS more ways to hide and transfer money, along with probably another hundred or so other countries in the world that have lax financial controls and are WAY more corrupt - one thing that Switzerland isn't). Plus, their status as 'part EU' (like Norway) does put them under a lot of the legal regulations that the EU has and even though details of bank accounts and who holds them are very private, it doesn't make the money streams any less obvious/private (I doubt that if an international anti-terrorism agency comes knocking on a banks door to freeze assets in an account, that the bank wouldn't comply). I think the whole discussion with the Swiss banking system is massively overblown and just a relic from times past that is stuck in people's minds. There's a million and one ways to hide money streams if you really want to (see Enron and tons of other stock market listed companies that did/do just that even with 'tight' control).

Solveig, I don't think Switzerland is a haven for saving tax really. That's more for countries like Monaco, Cayman Islands and in fact several Eastern European countries that have favourable tax rates (amongst a hundred or so others). I love the Scandinavian system, but I'd be stupid if I believed no one would try and move their official addresses overseas because they are sick and tired of paying 50% and upward of each dollar generated. If you charge that much in taxes, you know this is going to happen if you don't have the legislation to stop it.

Also, it would be smart in this discussion to separate businesses and their wealth (ie. banks) with the nations neutral status being the reason that the Swiss passport is the 'gold card of citizenships' (as this thread was actually intended for).

Let's try and get the discussion back to what it was intended for (or at the very least refrain from letting this thread get too out of hand with personal attacks) ...

15. Posted by walkabout (Budding Member 39 posts) 10y

Quoting Sam I Am

Imo, it's just stupid to say you won't go to a country if you don't agree with some kind of political/legislative stance they have there. That would make every country in the world non-visitable, as I could certainly find something I didn't like if I looked into it. You travel to a country to experience it's people, culture, nature and their way of life. Even if you don't agree with it, what kind of person are you if you can't look past that and enjoy the beauty of the country and it's people!

Well said ;)

[ Edit: fixed quote ]

16. Posted by Zoom (Full Member 131 posts) 10y

Is EVERYBODY forgetting how most of the traveling world would not go to South Africa during Aparteid ? Everyone seems to have such short memories. I went to S.A. for a month in 1984 when it WAS under Aparteid and all I heard was "How can you go?!" "How can you go?!". How I could go is in my mainly European travels the year before I met many South Africans from all over the country and they were very honest about their country and it's problems. They knew their system was wrong and admited it and we talked about it (just like I have about the USA) but it was also something they were born into and didn't create. I learned a hell of a lot in my month there and nothing was as simple and cut and dry as it seemed. Of course the system was still wrong but individuals were doing things and breaking the laws to make life a bit better for the non whites. Was it enough? NO, but it showed how guilty they felt and in their own little ways tried to make it 1% better.

Do I see such honesty with the people and they're situation in Switzerland? NO. The problem I have found in Switzerland is NOBODY will talk about why the country has so much money. Where does everybody think it comes from? Swatch Pop watches ? Fine Chocolates ? It's a country in denial. It's a country ashamed of what it's doing to live so rich (but wouldn't talk about it). Just be honest, that's ALL I'm saying - BE HONEST. If your cousin's a drug dealer and has a mansion in Miami don't say he works at a movie theater. If your sister's a prostitute and drives a Rolls Royce don't say she works at Mcdonalds. Yes, It very shameful to have a nice, protected life living off the dirty blood money that's created so much pain, death, and destruction in the world but that's the reality the people have to face (I understand no one wants to talk about this deep dark secret). Go to Switzerland and even TRY to talk about it and watch the people FREAK OUT. To work hand and hand with the Nazi's in WWII and then declare that you are nuetral and good and pure is just TOTAL bullsh*t.

Everybody wants a nice life, everybody wants money. The question is what are you willing to do to get that money ? Prostitute ? Drug Dealer ? Corrupt Polititian ? A "Master of War" Weapons dealer ? Be a Pimp for underaged children ? Go for it, just don't lie about it. And if people don't respect you and hate you that's your problem cause you NEED THE MONEY (just like poor, land locked Switzerland - I'm crying. Check your map - Austria, Czech Repub, Slovakia, and Hungary are land locked too. Everybody has excuses for everything - doesn't change the truth). This is SO simple. Why is everybody putting a spin on it (well, the woman after my comment from Brazil - Solveig - knew the truth). How do you think things work in this world? How do you think America keeps it's power? with McDonalds and Steven Spielberg movies? Why can Pakistan have nukes but Iran cannot? ANSWER: Pakistan = American Puppet / Iran = Not American Puppet. Buy a book called "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". Go see a film called "Why We Fight" about the Military Industrilized Complex that almost controls America at this point.

Let's all get out of DREAMLAND. And I'll go to almost ANY country as long as there's some honesty there. Why would I go to Switzerland when it's surrounded by France, Italy, Austria, and Germany. I don't have endless time and money. Those 4 countries (with all their faults) interest me alot more (my many trips to Switzerland was when I was younger and not aware of the situation as I am now). And I agree with Sam I Am that it is no longer the haven / center (once you have enough money it just keeps making so much more by itself. You don't have to touch it) but how much is it still involved ? Who knows - another dirty little secret. No ones gonna say because no one will admit that the system even exists. Does America talk about how it controls or overthrows leaders of different countries all around the world? No. Ugly stuff my fellow travelers. Some people can't stomach it. Me? I think I'll go have some Fondue..... Zoom

PS AND Sam I am, I agree, let's get back to the subject at hand but everytime I check here there's a new attack on me so I must defend myself. If a guy wants to come on here and say these facts are wrong I'm gonna have a problem with that because it's just a continuation of the status quo which everybody seems to be so comfortable with. I've noticed in these last 5 years of Bush / Cheney that people are much more comfortable with pretty lies than ugly truths. I guess George Orwell had it right.

17. Posted by walkabout (Budding Member 39 posts) 10y

Quoting Zoom

Everybody wants a nice life, everybody wants money. The question is what are you willing to do to get that money ? Prostitute ? Drug Dealer ? Corrupt Polititian ? A "Master of War" Weapons dealer ? Be a Pimp for underaged children ?

um.... ain`t this going off on a bit of a tangent?

[ Edit: fixed quote ]

18. Posted by moscowmetr (Full Member 267 posts) 10y

Geez Zoom, You spend far to much time defending an opinion that is aparantly so cut and dry. I was born and grew up in Canada, lived there for 25 years. I am not defending Switzerland due to some patriotic agenda that may ensure a Swiss national status.

I am so sick of hearing peoples ignorant opinion on how backward and corrupt the Swiss and their banking is. PLEASE REVIEW THE SWISS BANKING LAW 1934, AMENDED 1999 before you go off and make yourself look so ridiculous, and worse set a bad tone for Switzerland and its people.

By reading what you wrote, I can assure you I know more about the rules and regulations that govern the Swiss banking systems than you.

Oh, by the way, please use paragraphs! It is such a simple tool in writing. Trying to read your anecdotes hurts my face even beyond the supidity of the words.

....you missed out on alot during your trips to Switzerland

19. Posted by Sam I Am (Admin 5588 posts) 10y

Quoting Zoom

Do I see such honesty with the people and they're situation in Switzerland? NO. The problem I have found in Switzerland is NOBODY will talk about why the country has so much money.

My problem with your posts is that what you claim to be fact can't be fact. Did you talk to EVERY SINGLE Swiss person? No (I safely dare say that is a fact). So, you have no reason or ground to say that 'NOBODY' will talk about this. The exact things you're complaining about, you turn around and end up writing in the next sentence sometimes. How can you write that you won't travel to countries that aren't honest, but yet you can justify to yourself working and living in the USA (whose policies you also clearly disagree with)? That seems at least a little hypocritcal to me.

We can all sit and look at any nation in the world and point out what terrible things they've done (Netherlands in Indonesia, Belgium in Congo, Italy in their Roman empire days etc. etc.), so why is Switzerland so much worse than other countries that you wouldn't want to travel there? Because you felt that they didn't want to talk about it? Do you think people in the Netherlands like talking about their days as slave drivers in Indonesia?

I don't think you (or anyone else for that matter) should take these discussions as personal attacks (and I hope not, because it means us moderators have to get involved...), and I really don't see how someone else disagreeing with you can be seen as such.

Personally, I think Switzerland is a beautiful country and I'd love to visit again. But I think Norway holds the 'gold card of citizenships'

20. Posted by moscowmetr (Full Member 267 posts) 10y

Quoting Zoom

Go for it, just don't lie about it. And if people don't respect you and hate you that's your problem cause you NEED THE MONEY (just like poor, land locked Switzerland - I'm crying. Check your map - Austria, Czech Repub, Slovakia, and Hungary are land locked too. .

AGGRH, I cant beleive I missed this. You just described an area of Europe that was the same country on the eve of WWI, er less than 100 years ago (look at that map, and the changing map of europe over the next 100 years). Switzerland had been a Confederation since 1291. Dont try to bash my point with stupidness.

It is quite remarkable how this small mountainous area of Europe has developed over the past 700 years to become what it is today. It aint perfect...but damn.

oh ya, please dont suggest people watch biased documentary, just read "a" bloody history book.