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Fingerprinting to enter US

Travel Forums General Talk Fingerprinting to enter US

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21. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 10y

Quoting Zoom

You want some minimum wage retard checking out your body parts?

While I agree that things may get worse before they get better, I must say Zoom that peppering your posts with generalizations and ad hominum arguments renders your point pretty moot. I have a very intelligent, rigorous, well-trained friend who works for Customs Canada in Vancouver Airport, and he is neithter retarded nor making minimum wage.

Opinions are neither wrong or right. And you certinaly won't convince anyone of your point by berating theirs.

Puts soap box back in closet.

22. Posted by Belize Me (Full Member 137 posts) 10y

Quoting Windmill

But there IS something we can do and that's stand up against it. Is it not obvious to you that iris scans, fingerprinting, ID cards are not going to deter terrorists.

If you are asking me personally, no, it is not obvious to me that these measures will not deter terrorists. IMO, I don't think these processes have been implemented long enough to determine how effective they are going to be.

>> I believe these measures are merely a front to show joe public that something is being done. It's certainly deterred me from visiting again.

So, you are saying that the US government is spending millions perhaps billions? on a program that is merely a front to make people believe they are trying to combat terrorism when in fact they aren't really doing anything about it?
Financially that doesn't make sense to me. Why would they do that?

>>>> but if everyone stands back and allows their liberties to be taken away with them, all the while moaning but not doing anything, then we will all be a bunch of moaning, yet compliant, citizens!
People need to stand up if they believe things are wrong.

I agree, but I don't think it is right to start pounding on the table in someone else's country. I see that you are from the UK and I think it perfectly acceptable for you to go to your government and express your concerns with regards to invasions of privacy at home. However, I do not believe it is right for you to expound your concerns regarding your privacy rights in the United States unless you are a citizen of that country.
Let me ask you this, if you believe it is within your rights to stand up against the US because you don't believe in their policies, do you think it is also fine for the US president to stand up against other countries just because their politics and policies are different from his? From all I've read this is the exact reason that he is so unpopular worldwide. People can't have it both ways.

>>>>I'm not saying that people on here who enter the US and get iris scans/fingerprints/CCTV everywhere are akin to those who fought for womens liberation or the end to apartheid, but I think you get my jist.

I'm sorry I don't get your jist. I don't see the connection.

I'm totally against all this monitoring. The UK government are going ahead with ID cards and I think it's a total farce. Never has a government plan run on time or on budget, and it's us the taxpayer that will have to foot the bill. Also, it's not unlikely that the company producing these cards will have some sort of link with the Labour party. If the government want it so much why can't they foot it? My bet is that within weeks of the ID card scam coming in, a tabloid rag manages to forge one of them.

Now you're talking turkey and I agree with you. As a UK citizen, bang on all the government doors you can and get things changed! You have rights as a citizen of the UK...ask/make your government to listen to you.

It's been a treat debating with you, and it IS wonderful that we have this forum to discuss issues (even if we do get off the travel topic once in a while). I haven't been a member long but it is refreshing to see that many people do post here without resorting to name calling and vulgar language. Ciao.

Belize Me

23. Posted by Belize Me (Full Member 137 posts) 10y

Quoting tway

Quoting Zoom

You want some minimum wage retard checking out your body parts?

While I agree that things may get worse before they get better, I must say Zoom that peppering your posts with generalizations and ad hominum arguments renders your point pretty moot. I have a very intelligent, rigorous, well-trained friend who works for Customs Canada in Vancouver Airport, and he is neithter retarded nor making minimum wage.

Opinions are neither wrong or right. And you certinaly won't convince anyone of your point by berating theirs.

Puts soap box back in closet.

Thank you tway. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion on any subject that is raised here, and there is no need for uncivilized vulgarity. I treat those questionable language posts the same way that I treat junk email...'nuff said;)

Belize me

24. Posted by Windmill (Full Member 125 posts) 10y

No worries Belize - I see your points, just don't agree with some of them. Firstly, you'll have to explain what "Turkey" means - a colloquialism I'm not familiar with.

Yes I do see it as obvious that anti-terrorist efforts are not going to work. Not only obvious that they are doing something to make it look like an attempt to stop terrorism but also to keep tabs on where we go, what we do, etc. It also seems to me that there are more obvious things that can stop such terrorism - diplomacy, intellectual discussion, appeasement, sanctions, not funding such "terrorists" in the first place, not being so oil-greedy, and not jumping into a war with our buddies on a false premise that there are WMDs in that country, etc.

As for pounding on the table in someone else's country, I'm not standing the sanctimonious moral highground. As I rightly pointed out before, I am more than displeased at the moves my nation is making with regard to such monitoring and suchlike BUT I also think I should be allowed to pass comment on other countries and encourage others in the US to stand up. If you're saying that you don't think I should be able to comment on this then what's the point in this debate if the opinions and input of non-U.S. citizens are immediately discounted? Also, I may not be a citizen of the US but it IS affecting me because I am now concerned about being able to come to the US without being monitored, scanned, printed, searched, bags ransacked (bags ransacked and interrogation happened to me last time I left the US because of my surname and my nationality - they didn't "make sense" according to officials).

With my general "jist" I meant that people need to stand up like Rosa Parks sat down. Speak out against what is happening. Unfortunately the apathy in my country (and, according to voting polls, the US as well) will lead to a steady decline in people who are willing to stand up.

25. Posted by Jase007 (Travel Guru 8870 posts) 10y

Fingerprints - ID, well depending on who has access to what information.
But as far as I can see, if you don't do EVERYONE, whats the point of doing it at all? I'd gripe at that.
You check in at Gatwick and they take a photo of you as you enter passport control, then this is matched against the boarding card when you get to the gate. No one complains, no one asks what happens with the info or the photo, but it's EVERYONE who hets checked, not just visitors.
Now the soap box rant :
US land of the free, well that hasn't existed for a long time - if ever. A country that was one of the last to renounce slavery, civil rights (equality still dosen't exist everywhere)now heads into the oblivion of BIG brother, I'd say herr hitler would have been impressed with the progress made. It's not just the US, but most western countries (mostly the ones harping on about free world and democracy to all) now have the situation that our so called 'Freedom' is more limited than at any time in recorded history. We live in a fantasy world where we think we are free, but in reality, we are watched by CCTV just about every minute of the day, our PC are tracked all of the time (don't kid yourself if you think spyware remover works for everything), our phone calls are recorded, spending patterns - everything we do in life is monitored from the cradle to the grave.
The only real freedom we have is 'do we want to change towards real freedom or carry on to where someday 1984 might really happen (in 2024 maybe?)
Jase steps down from the soapbox, dusts himself down and wanders off to the pub (feeling thursty)

26. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 10y

To add to the 1984 metaphor, the English language is also being altered, bit by bit, to accommodate the powers that be. Somehow, we are now fighting for peace, gaining freedom by taking away privacy, fighting terror with terror, upholding democracy by infringing on our rights (a la communism), and so on. We need to cut through the rhetoric to truly understand what our leaders are saying.

27. Posted by Windmill (Full Member 125 posts) 10y

Haha, TONS of references to 1984. Rumsfeld declaring that the war could last for 20 years. Reference this to 1984 to see how the nation should always be in a constant state of war - to keep the people on their toes and appreciate what they have. Bush's admission that we are now entering the "long war" phase. Drag it out as long as possible.

Check the language used in today's society: V V GOOD = double plus good. Ring any bells? Look at LEETspeak (type leet into wikipedia or google). It's a form of communication which is almost like a basic code to defy text reading systems which ban certain words. Only in an early stage (mainly used by online gamers) but is a sign of the times.

And the glory that is CCTV! In the UK (not sure about other countries) we have MOBILE CCTV VANS which show face at rallies, protests and other events which may threaten the state. In fact as I write this, today is the day that the new Terror Law has come into force, meaning that anything linked with terrorism, purporting to support or promote and even READING about terrorists, plots, counter-revolutionary movements COULD potentially land you in prison. How scared are people these days too? The masses who buy the tabloids seem easily sucked in to what is "reported" to them - bird flu, sars, anthrax, nuclear threats - and seek solace in deeply unintellectual celebrities who have done nothing more than change a hairstyle.

Time for me to go out and travel I think!

28. Posted by tallbird (Respected Member 269 posts) 10y

I have a very intelligent, rigorous, well-trained friend who works for Customs Canada in Vancouver Airport, and he is neithter retarded nor making minimum wage.

Phew! Glad he is at customs in Vancouver, Tina! Did you read my rant earlier about Toronto customs officers?

29. Posted by Belize Me (Full Member 137 posts) 10y

Quoting Windmill

No worries Belize - I see your points, just don't agree with some of them. Firstly, you'll have to explain what "Turkey" means - a colloquialism I'm not familiar with.>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> It also seems to me that there are more obvious things that can stop such terrorism - diplomacy, intellectual discussion, appeasement, sanctions, not funding such "terrorists" in the first place, not being so oil-greedy, and not jumping into a war with our buddies on a false premise that there are WMDs in that country, etc.

Well disagreement is a part of what makes this forum interesting reading. If we all took part in a love fest it would soon become very boring.
The phrase 'talking turkey'is a Canadian expression (I think)because I had not heard it before I came to Canada. I have always understood it to mean 'getting to the heart of the matter'. If it means something else, someone please enlighten me.

>>>>>>>>BUT I also think I should be allowed to pass comment on other countries and encourage others in the US to stand up. If you're saying that you don't think I should be able to comment on this then what's the point in this debate if the opinions and input of non-U.S. citizens are immediately discounted?

I absolutely agree with you that we should all be allowed to pass comment on other countries and their policies. I don't think I ever said that we should not be allowed to discuss policy. We can debate these issues until the cows come home, but I still don't think anyone has the right to protest in someone elses country. We all have enough issues in our own homelands that need solving before we jump in on anyone elses. I think the way to change things is to provide others (individuals or countries) with an example of something that works better than what they currently have. How many times have we said 'that's a great idea...must try that' I absolutely agree with you that forums, debates and conferences etc. are the way to try and sort out the world's problems although I don't think that solutions will come about that everyone is happy with.

Also, I may not be a citizen of the US but it IS affecting me because I am now concerned about being able to come to the US without being monitored, scanned, printed, searched, bags ransacked (bags ransacked and interrogation happened to me last time I left the US because of my surname and my nationality - they didn't "make sense" according to officials).

OK...now we are getting back to my original thought/post which was to say that when we travel outside our home country, we are really at the mercy of foreign governments. No matter how much we dislike their policies, we either 'give in' or 'get out'. There are no other options. If a customs agent decides that you have to jump through a hoop before you are allowed into his country, then I guess you will have to jump through that hoop or you won't be allowed in. No amount of 'discussion' will sway them and physical assertions of your 'rights' will probably land you in jail. I never said that their policies were right and just, what I said is that we can't do much about it on the spot. After the fact, you can write letters, threaten never to return, and petition for changes until you are blue in the face, but at that precise moment you are standing face to face with foreign customs, you do what they want you to do or face the consequences.

>>>>Speak out against what is happening. Unfortunately the apathy in my country (and, according to voting polls, the US as well) will lead to a steady decline in people who are willing to stand up.

If you believe that most people are apathetic these days, you have to ask yourself why that is? Personally I think it is because people are afraid of that person next to them...the one who is waiving the banner and shouting epithets and vulgarities because someone does something or says something that they don't agree with, the one who burns another country's flag just because it is the thing to do on national/international television, the one who refuses to listen to another persons point of view because they are the only ones who are right. I agree, it is a pretty sad state of affairs.

Have a great vacation and take care,
Belize Me

30. Posted by Windmill (Full Member 125 posts) 10y

Cheers bud, will do :)