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Death or life imprisonment?

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1. Posted by tallbird (Respected Member 269 posts) 10y

I was very interested in the debate going on for the Islam and Terror thread posted by wouterrr and it got me thinking (which doesn't happen very often! )

I'm doing a course in Criminology at the moment and am trying to stay up-to-date with the trial of the "11th Highjacker" of the 9/11 attacks, Zacarias Moussaoui.

Now the interesting thing about it is that the prosecution wants him sentenced to death, yet the defence claims that if he is put to death it will fulfill his dream of becoming a "matyr".

What do you guys think about this?

2. Posted by MerB (Full Member 147 posts) 10y

Very very odd. Reminds me off the story of the 'double lie'.
Because if his DEFENCE is saying don't put him to death because that is what he wants ... surely then that is what his defence wants? (that he not be put to death). But is he not instructing dis defence or at least able to override what they tell the courts?
So that if he WANTS to be put to death, he should not allow his defence to try an argument that may end up saving his life??

Sorry I' not from the USA so I don't know, is he maybe a 'hostile client'? Does he not talk to/instruct his defence attorneys??

3. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 10y

I've barely followed the trial at all - although, from what little I've read, this man seems to be a little loopy. Aren't mentally unstable people exempt from the death penalty?

It's quite the paradox, though. The death penalty was created as the ultimate punishment - and a way to deter people from committing the same crime. Yet, he'll be receiving the ultimate 'gift' - and perhaps inspiring other like-minded individuals to follow suit.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

4. Posted by mally (Respected Member 199 posts) 10y

just hang all murderers and terrorists they both know the risks. we all forget about them eventually. people who can't live a life along side other people should be treated as mad dogs . if you don't agrea o.k. take them home with YOU!!! I don't want them. ps. i get along with everyone all shades and religions.

5. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 10y

One of the Bali bombers, "Amrozi", also wanted to be sentenced to death so he too could fulfil his wish of becoming a matyr.

Thing is, he got the sentence he supposedly wanted, then appealed against it!

6. Posted by majito (Respected Member 442 posts) 10y

Muslims have many ways of reaching paradise. Fighting in the cause of Allah or fighting for ones religion are but two. This guy masterminded an attack that killed Muslims and people that were not at war with him. If he thought these people were agressors then Islam, being a religion of Justice, seeks fair resolutions in time of conflict. That's how I understand it. The question is was the attack in the name of Allah? If it really wasn't then does the death penalty open the gates to paradise for this person who is clearly a terrorist?

7. Posted by tallbird (Respected Member 269 posts) 10y

Quoting MerB

Very very odd. Reminds me off the story of the 'double lie'.
Because if his DEFENCE is saying don't put him to death because that is what he wants ... surely then that is what his defence wants? (that he not be put to death). But is he not instructing dis defence or at least able to override what they tell the courts?
So that if he WANTS to be put to death, he should not allow his defence to try an argument that may end up saving his life??

Welll, that is the weird thing. His defence it seems are going against his wishes. Their job is to get him the most lenient punishment possible, while he wants the "ultimate" punishment- or so it seems!

The bali bomber incident is really strange though, James. Was he successful in his appeal?

The main question for me is - do you put someone to death, even if they actually want it- doesn't that mean that they are not really punished in the same sense as others that do not want to die? Does it make more sense in giving them life imprisonment so that they lose their notority and become one of the forgotten?

8. Posted by Vlakvark (Budding Member 40 posts) 10y

This discussion begs another question.

If you were in that position, what would you want? Life in prison (without parole)or the death penalty?

9. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 10y

Quoting tallbird

The bali bomber incident is really strange though, James. Was he successful in his appeal?

Here's an update

My opinion? Shoot him whether he wants it or not.

[ Edit: link edited for display purposes ]

10. Posted by vegasmike6 (Travel Guru 3562 posts) 10y

Quoting Vlakvark

This discussion begs another question.

If you were in that position, what would you want? Life in prison (without parole)or the death penalty?

A difficult question. I would choose life in prison and try to make it as productive as possible while incarcerated. Christians believe in forgiveness and hopefully I could lead a good enough life after being convicted of murder to be forgiven. I personally do not want to give this theory a try.

I am against the death penalty. There have been too many mistakes by juries to believe that they 'get it right' all the time. The Innocents Project has gotten 175 US prisoners out of jail by DNA evidence. 175 times the evidence was strong enough for a judge to be convinced that the jury had convicted the wrong person. If we sentence a prisoner to life without parole, any mistake made can be corrected. That option is gone with the death penalty being enforced.