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Canadians and Americans

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31. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 10y

So many cans of worms I am not sure which one to go with!

As far as the elections in the United States, I wasn't really meaning the Bush vs. Kerry... "irregularities". Because really, let's be honest for a minute and realise that it's the same <explicit> different pile. Both come from the elite ruling class which are governed by the rich multi-billion dollar lobby groups.

(Obviosly Canada isn't squeeky clean, and more and more lobby groups are bending the Queen over the altar)

Down with power structure and governments! Up with Anarchy!

As for The War®... I really don't understand "supporting your troops but not the war" - I need that one explained to me.

32. Posted by bvheide (Budding Member 20 posts) 10y

Quoting Brendan

As for The War®... I really don't understand "supporting your troops but not the war" - I need that one explained to me.

While I can't put words into someone else's mouth, I'll take a stab at supporting the troops, not the war. The way I understand that phrase it's meant to point out that a person has gratitude to the members of the armed forces for the sacrifice that they're willing to make. Because of that potential sacrifice, they deserve a certain modicum of honor. Perhaps what's confusing is the word "support". In this instance, I don't think it necessarily means "agreement". The troops do what they're told, or else they get put in jail. Because of that it's a little shortsighted to hold them accountable for wars that US residents think may be being fought on illicit grounds (i.e. the present debacle).

I think the idea of supporting the troops and not the war also is born from the way that the troops in recent US history (namely Vietnam) were blacklisted right along with the war. Now, this didn't happen across the board. However, in many cases many of our dear family members who once served in the military still harbor deep resentment toward the Government, the armed forces, and the US people themselves for being so incredibly callous during Vietnam. For some servicemen (and at that time they were mostly men), those wounds haven't yet healed.

Finally, in a post-September 11 era, people of the US are, I think, particularly sensitive to the sacrifices that rescue workers and members of the armed forces are willing to make for people they don't know. People in the US view this as the most selfless thing a person could do. Yet, people with less neo-conservative sensibilities do not support the idea of this war we've got going on. As such, we're anxious to support the troops, too. We desperately want the world to know that "support the troops" isn't a trademarked Republican thing to say or believe. But, what we cannot do is make the step to say that this war is right.

And, bottom line, we believe that the freedom to support or not support whichever military conflicts we see as just is fundamental to our liberty. The very liberty that our servicewomen and men are putting their lives on the line to protect. In short, people who don't support the war are billed as unpatriotic (which is next to being a serial killer on the desirability scale) we want to point out that we ARE patriotic and that our patriotism points us to defend the justice with which this country's military executes itself.

33. Posted by Jase007 (Travel Guru 8870 posts) 10y

You guys sure have issues between your relative nations.
And I thought South Park was just taking the piss setting up the war between the US and Canada.

Canada being full of flip-top headed people with funny accents and foul mouths.

America (well the US) being full of inbread, violence loving, celebrity obsessed thicko's.

So, maybe they were right - Blame Canada for bad language, knock off Bill Gates for giving us a crap operating system for computers and Canada bomb the Baldwins.

Remember only poor Kenny can save the world.............

34. Posted by GregW (Travel Guru 2635 posts) 10y

Quoting Jase007

Canada being full of flip-top headed people with funny accents and foul mouths.

Pull my finger!

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh Phillip, I farted on your head!

35. Posted by Jase007 (Travel Guru 8870 posts) 10y

Quoting GregW

Quoting Jase007

Canada being full of flip-top headed people with funny accents and foul mouths.

Pull my finger!

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh Phillip, I farted on your head!

Light it, terrence your ass is on fire !!!!!

36. Posted by Jase007 (Travel Guru 8870 posts) 10y

Quoting Fern1

My biggest beef with Americans is they think they are the World, have very limited knowledge, if any at all, of things outside their own country.

Very stereotypical comment,most of the americans i've met have been great.
America is a continent remember, everything from Chilie to Canada.
I think this thread is not true to it's title, it should be USA's and Canadians.

37. Posted by Mike_T (Budding Member 7 posts) 10y

An old saying in Canada goes something like this:
"Living beside the US is like sleeping beside an elephant. We're affected by every snore, cough or roll"

The US is much bigger, and much more powerful. The attitude I've gotten from their press (although not so much from individuals) is that they think Canadians aspire to become Americans themselves. What they (media) don't get is that we're in independant nation who loves who we are. We've been different since our countries began. Our independance from Britain flowed in on champagne in Charlettown, while the US fought a bloody battle to win theirs. Canadians enjoy a safe environment (violence&crimes very low...except for guncrimes in the GTA recently) with lots of civil liberties not always enjoyed by Americans. I'm not saying this country is better, it's just an alternative to the almighty power of the US.

Canadians know a lot about the US (through the media, and the fact that they're so pervasive in this modern world). We're generally pretty comfortable with our neighbors to the south. Many Americans in contrast know no more about Canada than it being the space above the 49th parallel on their classroom maps. A little education to the masses would go a long way in our relationship.

Acknowledging the different cultures and going beyond them will help tremendously in our relations.

38. Posted by twitchy78 (Budding Member 10 posts) 10y

Based on census data i found for 2005, Canada has a population of over 32 million people. The US has a population ov over 296 million. The state of California has a popultion of 35 million. Texas has 22 million and New York has 19 million.

The reason I am throwing these numbers out is that I want to try to rebuff a common accusation that Americans are unaware of the world around them. Compared with most nations of the world, we are pretty big in population and land mass. I live in Nevada. For me, knowing the politics, terrain and laws of California could be directly compared to a citizen of France being familiar with Germany or Spain.

At some point, this was used as an example of why Canadians know so much about America:

"Living beside the US is like sleeping beside an elephant. We're affected by every snore, cough or roll"

To continue that analogy, would that same elephant be especially aware of what the human is doing? No. Those Americans who do not directly deal with Canadians have only the American media to present a picture of Canada for them. And lately, due to internation politics, it has not been pretty.

So, in closing, Americans are not unaware of their world or environment (not any more or less than any one else). Rather, since their boarders are so large their scope and range just do not typically exceed the natioal boundries. In the northern states, you will find a greater awarenes of Canadian issues and customs just as in the south you will find a greater awareness of what is going on in Mexico.

39. Posted by beerman (Respected Member 1631 posts) 10y

Quoting Brendan

As for The War®... I really don't understand "supporting your troops but not the war" - I need that one explained to me.

Brendan, you know I have certain opinions and sensibilities as an "American" (pronounced slowly and loudly so foreigners will understand...), but listen to me when I say that bvheide's comment from today hits the nail right on the head. That was one of the most thoughful and well versed explanations I have ever seen on this or any other website. Bravo.

Meanwhile, I've been meaning to make this JOKE for some time now in this thread....."Americans love Canadians....they make great pets.....but they do chafe at the leash every now and again....

OK, now step back and look at it again...JOKE was the key word there.

BTW...where did you get the trademark icon? I love that. I want to use it to describe the American governments' quest for giving FREEDOM (TM) to every soul in the world, even if we have to kill them to do it!!!!! (OK, that was funny, people!!!)

40. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 10y

I agree Beerman, that BV's post really helped to answer my question. Granted, I still disagree completely. I can understand supporting police, firefighters, paramedics, magicians... but soldiers?

The aformentioned being rescuers, helpers, preservers of life: while a soldier is a weapon. A tool of destruction. (I'm not saying soldiers don't have their place... but to support them is something entirely different. To support a soldier is to condone their actions. Soldiers kill or be killed. If you know of other definitions please let me know.

I suppose the root of my arguement stems from the fact that I fear Patriotism™ more than the soldiers it supports.

Quoting Leo Tolstoy

Patriotism, sir, is the last resort of scoundrels.

To me Patriotism promotes the idea that one group is better than the next. That by some external force "I" was born here, therefor I am better than you for being born over there. I believe that patriotism is the work of lies and manipulation by world powers to gain control over the populations.

Why else would a King want his countrymen to slay the people of another land but to take that land for himself.

Patriotism is hard to sell to me. And not a good reason to "support your troops".