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51. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting oslaue

though the beauty about germany is that they dont have the racial problems that go on in england, correct me if i am wrong but there is something like 4 million muslims living in germany....and they all integrate into their society very nicely!

Netherlands has more then 1.000.000, mostly muslim, immigrants at the moment (Dutch population at present is 17.000.000). A lot of integration problems at the moment. Only a few immigrants learn to speak proper Dutch but the largest part doesn't and stick together. Turning their back at the native Dutch. The fact that they seem ignorant towards the natives (but that also counts for the Dutch towards the immigrants, but who is guest here?) causes the problems and strengthens the intolerance towards them (Netherland is quite tolerant already). I was yesterday in Rotterdam. It felt if I was in Turkey or Marocco. Extreme right politicians are popular at the moment. Most of the immigrants are without work and hang around on the street or dissapear into criminality. I really like people from Turkey or Marocco, but they are much nicer in their home country, for sure.

52. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 9y

Quoting oslaue

mind you had germany helped the us and uk in the war then they would probably have huge problems!

First, which war are you talking about - the war in Afghanistan or the war in Iraq? Both wars involved far more countries that the US and the UK, although those 2 countries sent the most troops, numbers-wise.

Second, the UN was established as a body that works to "facilitate cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress and human rights issues". It's a democracy - majority wins and minority must follow along. A member country doesn't like the majority decision? Too bad! Such is democracy.

I'm temped to go on another tangent about the Rwanda Genocide and how the UN and all these big countries stayed mum while over 800,000 Rwandans were slaughtered, but I'll refrain. War is about money. Where there's no money, the big guys don't go to war.

53. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting tway

I'm temped to go on another tangent about the Rwanda Genocide and how the UN and all these big countries stayed mum while over 800,000 Rwandans were slaughtered, but I'll refrain. War is about money. Where there's no money, the big guys don't go to war.

Have you read the book "shake hands with the devil" of Romeo Dallaire (from Francophone Canada). He was a general of the peace keeping force in Rwanda at the time hell broke loose in 1994. He couldn't do anything because there was no money and no will. The war in Kosovo at the same time had priority. The thought was that "little" tribe wars occured all the time deep in Africa. The UN thought it was just a damn tribe war. Dallaire went back to canada heavily confused and depressed and ended on the streets.

54. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 9y

Quoting wouterrr

Quoting tway

I'm temped to go on another tangent about the Rwanda Genocide and how the UN and all these big countries stayed mum while over 800,000 Rwandans were slaughtered, but I'll refrain. War is about money. Where there's no money, the big guys don't go to war.

Have you read the book "shake hands with the devil" of Romeo Dallaire (from Francophone Canada). He was a general of the peace keeping force in Rwanda at the time hell broke loose in 1994. He couldn't do anything because there was no money and no will. The war in Kosovo at the same time had priority. The thought was that "little" tribe wars occured all the time deep in Africa. The UN thought it was just a damn tribe war. Dallaire went back to canada heavily confused and depressed and ended on the streets.

Yup - saw the documentary, too. It broke the man completely to see such slaughter and not be able to convince the world to do anything about it. He went into a huge depression and was found drunk on a park bench in ottawa, I think it was, but now he speaks and does interviews and talks openly about his experiences. In the end, there was no money to be made in poor, black African countries, so hardly anyone came to help. At least we're learning about it now. At least it didn't stay hidden forever.

55. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting tway

Yup - saw the documentary, too. It broke the man completely to see such slaughter and not be able to convince the world to do anything about it. He went into a huge depression and was found drunk on a park bench in ottawa, I think it was, but now he speaks and does interviews and talks openly about his experiences. In the end, there was no money to be made in poor, black African countries, so hardly anyone came to help. At least we're learning about it now. At least it didn't stay hidden forever.

It is really horrible what happened there. The UN also knew about weapon/machetes stocking in Rwanda. Dallaire pushed the UN to do something. The guy was on his own when 800.000 tutsi's where killed. He was just watching and couldn't do anything. I really respect Dallaire. Amazing man.

[ Edit: Edited on Jan 23, 2007, at 8:58 AM by wouterrr ]

56. Posted by oslaue (Full Member 571 posts) 9y

i hear you wourterr and you are correct. i have heard about the race problems in the netherlands. and that some degree its getting out of hand.

tawy - im talking about the war in iraq...im aware germany sent a few troops to afghanistan on behalf of the un but in no way did they ever carry out offensive operations only to protect buildings or staff at best. plus compared to other nations they sent some of the fewest...

tway, in relation to the war in iraq...when there was a land invasion it was ONLY the uk and the usa that went in...all the other countrys agreed that after the land invasion that they would send in troops into iraq for stability reasons but only after and once usa and uk had secured it as they wanted no part.

the problem with the un is that you get countrys like russia, china who are only interested in there own interests
because it was russia and china that were doing billions of pounds of trade with iraq...when the invasion occurred they lost out on a lot of money...of course they would veto! :)

africa is in the biggest mess...i wont even go there.

57. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Wourterr

I told my boyfriend, that u would like to know what he thinks, and he sends u the following.

Surprisingly, I'm all for it. But only in computer games. In real life, it's just a waste of lives. When did a war ever solve anything?

58. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Surprisingly, I'm all for it. But only in computer games. In real life, it's just a waste of lives. When did a war ever solve anything?

Well spoken!

59. Posted by oslaue (Full Member 571 posts) 9y

mel - had germany won the war MANY more people would be killed and we would be all slaves! there for comment is unjustified! ha ha:)

60. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting oslaue

mel - had germany won the war MANY more people would be killed and we would be all slaves! there for comment is unjustified! ha ha:)

What would it be like when the Germans won WW2. Hell on earth. The Jews would be exterminated in total. Off the map, no jew left. I think ahmedinejad would be laughing his longs out.....