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What makes you proud of your country??

Travel Forums General Talk What makes you proud of your country??

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81. Posted by Zoom (Full Member 131 posts) 10y

This is an example of what I'm talking about Isadora (no offense). You throw a whole bunch of numbers and figures at me that you googled (or whatever) and it's suppose to prove something but it proves nothing cause you're not adding the variables of the particular situations in (and without that you ain't got nuthin'). First of all, registered and voting are 2 different things. I was talking in generalalities about ACTUAL VOTING. Registration doesn't mean ANYTHING. The act of VOTING is what counts. You have some figures there but you don't take into account that the election was "fixed" - we thought it then, we know it now (read RFK jr's super great article in last months ROLLING STONE about the stolen election in Ohio involving those joke paperless voting machines - the more tests done on those things - those "toys" - the bigger failures they appear to be - SONY Play Stations are more reliable and harder to hack) Why don't you ask yourself why the exit polls DID NOT MATCH the paperless voting machine outcomes at all - not even close.....

Where do your figures come from? Some GOVERNMENT involved number collectors? I can make up numbers that would be as valid as ANYTHING the Government puts out. The Government has 2 books concerning the country's debt (illegal in ANY private business) The one that Bush and Clinton used that made the numbers look better (easy to do when you leave out certain big future mandatory expenses) and the REAL books that show this country is in much deeper debt than what is officially said. The REAL ones are out there and available. The "more comfortable" ones are much easier for the press (or whoever) to get their hands on.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm trying to tell you that you just should not believe any of this crap the Government tells you without you questioning it. The US military tells us that about 30,000 innocent Iraqi's have been killed. Independent agencies inside Iraq say it's more like 100,000....which one do you believe? I sure don't believe 30,000 cause I don't belive ANYTHING the US Military throws out of their mouths. I happen to like cliches (as trite as some people think they are) Here's a good one for War Figures coming out of the DOD - "The first casualty of War is the Truth" - I'll take that one to the bank ANYTIME over what Rummy tells me - he's been proven to be a certified 100% liar, but when is it any different when the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX is involved? (there's some VERY BIG money being made by a few these days - check out "Why We Fight" DVD)

BTW, read you went for your real estate licence. I have 3 words of advice - INTERNATIONAL REAL ESTATE. Check out Escape Artist - the usual beginning and end internet address to see what's going on - that's what i would get in on, people are leaving, there's a "brain drain" starting. So, I'm giving you some good advice, not trying to fight. fighting all the time is stupid, Zoom, passing around the peace pipe...

WAIT, Cupcake just showed up. OK, I'll go with 20%...so I said 75% , if you take 20 + the 50 that wash their hands (almost don't blame them) that's 70 % so that's close enough for me. 70 to 75 % that either don't use their group power to keep the country on the right track or end up voting for the criminal - either way the number is MUCH too high, especially for the "Woodstock/JFK" Generation that should know better. All these people that grew up listening to Dylan and The Beatles are now buying into Dick Cheney...I DON"T GET IT !! Cupcake, I think our math comes out more or less the same. I'm not doing it by numbers (amount of people registered or whatever), I'm using Percentages but i think the outcome is pretty much the same.

Look, I'm not trying to fight with either of you (or even beerman), this country is in big trouble and the more the people realize it the more it might be possibly savible. If and when the sh*t hits the fan we're all gonna feel it and it will be very painful. That's my concern, there's a whole bunch of politicians who are faking it getting through another year. Everybody knows what I'm talking about - it's time to deal with it before it's to late..... As Dylan says, "It ain't Dark Yet, but it's gettin' there"

82. Posted by Cupcake (Travel Guru 8468 posts) 10y

You're still not making sense to me, help me to understand what you are saying.........the difference between 20% and 70% is HUGE! I did not vote for Baby Bush, I loath the man, and his father! But to say Americans (as in ALL Americans) are to blame is absurd! I agree with many of the things you have to say Zoom, what I don't agree with, is the way you go about making your point, and the personal attacks are intolerable.

I used to work for the government, and I could talk to you for HOURS about the fraud and waste....but are you trying to tell me that any other country is different?

No, I do not believe whatever comes out of the mouths of politicians or the military. But shoving my beliefs down the throats of others is the quickests ways to turn people off to different ways of thinking.

I vote....in every election, local, state and national. I do my research on the canidates and I discuss things, I try to do everything I can, including getting my friends and family involved. Does it work/help? I don't know, but unlike the people who don't vote, or even try to change anything I can complain about weather it is working or not.

I do my best, and I have instilled that in my children. I have taught them that education is the most important thing...and NOT education from textbooks....but life-lessons. Don't just watch the local news, or CNN...think broader...BBC ...anything to expand your horizons! There is a great big world out there...with much to see and learn from the people who don't live next door!

The other thing I have tried to teach them...is not to judge one town/state/country...based on a small group of people or one person. Everyone has grown up with different backgrounds, and there is something to be learned from everyone.!

[ Edit: Edited at Sep 12, 2006 8:51 PM by Cupcake ]

83. Posted by YvonneLiu (Budding Member 14 posts) 10y

well,what makes me proud of my country is kinda question i never thought about seriously...in China,we used to be told that we should be proud of our culture,our fantasy food and everyhing that is antiquity and,esp,the leadership of Communist Party ....but we're the generation that don't believe anything----in some extent of lacking of belief.so,confusion is always be with me---we should be proud of our own or the western country?western countries have "everything advanced",and some of my foreinger friends would say"this is China"when stange or illogical things happen in my country.
IS CHINA THAT BAD?traffic jams,population problems,commuist ideology ...?
ok,i don't believe that.we did have splendid culture and that's what i proud of----great walls,Confucianism ,the Imperial Palace ,circular Mound Altar ,traditional morality ,kindness to the old,the youth and minority ,great respect to the eldershipand so on.....we Chinese have a open mind that like to learn whatever good things,and ,of course ,we also like to take any well-meaning advise...;)
so,how do u guys think of China?

84. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 10y

Quoting Cupcake

You're still not making sense to me, help me to understand what you are saying.........the difference between 20% and 70% is HUGE! I did not vote for Baby Bush, I loath the man, and his father! But to say Americans (as in ALL Americans) are to blame is absurd! I agree with many of the things you have to say Zoom, what I don't agree with, is the way you go about making your point, and the personal attacks are intolerable.

I used to work for the government, and I could talk to you for HOURS about the fraud and waste....but are you trying to tell me that any other country is different?

No, I do not believe whatever comes out of the mouths of politicians or the military. But shoving my beliefs down the throats of others is the quickests ways to turn people off to different ways of thinking.

I vote....in every election, local, state and national. I do my research on the canidates and I discuss things, I try to do everything I can, including getting my friends and family involved. Does it work/help? I don't know, but unlike the people who don't vote, or even try to change anything I can complain about weather it is working or not.

I do my best, and I have instilled that in my children. I have taught them that education is the most important thing...and NOT education from textbooks....but life-lessons. Don't just watch the local news, or CNN...think broader...BBC ...anything to expand your horizons! There is a great big world out there...with much to see and learn from the people who don't live next door!

The other thing I have tried to teach them...is not to judge one town/state/country...based on a small group of people or one person. Everyone has grown up with different backgrounds, and there is something to be learned from everyone.!

I VOTE THIS FOR "POST OF THE WEEK".

85. Posted by Jase007 (Travel Guru 8870 posts) 10y

James,
If there was a post of the week, I'd vote for it also.
Well said CC.

86. Posted by Zoom (Full Member 131 posts) 10y

Well Cupcake, I think you make a lot of really good points and the way you are gathering your information (the correct way IMO, many different sources) I'm obviously not talking about you when i talk about the people that aren't keeping an eye on the country. My comments are always really long so let me come back later today when I have time to formulate my thoughts and make a few extra points. Really liked your comments though, very well said. Zoom

87. Posted by beerman (Respected Member 1631 posts) 10y

What makes me proud of my country is the diversity of people and the blend of cultures that, for the most part, co-exist peacefully. That there is still some middle ground left between extreme right and extreme left. That people can agree to disagree (though that is waning) without resorting to violence.

PS to Zoom: Before you tout Escape Artist too much, you might want to read this, from one of his detractors...it's an intersting read. Roger Gallo

88. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 10y

Is voting non-compulsory in the US?

If so, then people are simply exercising their right not to vote. What's the problem with that? I think there's no problem unless someone gets voted in that you don't like Zoom. Then it becomes a problem.

Here in Australia it's compulsory to vote. If you don't vote, you get fined. In other words, even if I don't want to vote, or don't think there's anyone worth voting for, I basically have to vote.

89. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 10y

Quoting james

Is voting non-compulsory in the US?

Voting is non-compulsory in the US. We have the choice to register or not register to vote. If you choose to registered - you have the choice to vote or stay home.

Though the statement doesn't make sense to some people, my father always said, "You don't have the right to bitch about politics if you didn't exercise your right to vote".

(That statement was not intended toward anyone who has chosen to post in this thread. It was just a general comment of my father's that I agree with.)

90. Posted by GregW (Travel Guru 2635 posts) 10y

Quoting YvonneLiu

so,how do u guys think of China?

Lovely country, excellent food, fantastic history. Most of the Chinese I've met are very nice people, and having worked (tangentially) with some Chinese, good workers too!

Poverty seemed a problem when I was there. There seems a big gap between the rich and the poor. Perhaps as the country opens up, there will be an opportunity to build a middle class. But some would say that the middle class is the problem with North America, so who knows?

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