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Airport Security - Over reaction?

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61. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 8y

Quoting Brendan

Interesting Lord of the Rings analogy, horrible movies by the way. All I ask wotthefiqh, is that people at least question what they hear and see. Just because you hear on the new 21 people were arrested because they were going to blow up planes does not make it a truth. One way of questioning such events is to look at what would be the motivation and who has it.

The Terrorists™ do have motive of course - when their home countries are being blanketed in Depleted Uranium. The leadership of our nations certainlly have motive, they are doing a very good job of make us realise how much we need them.

I'm not saying there were definitely no Terrorists™, and I am not saying it was definitely a governemnt plot. All I ask is question.

Cowardice asks the question, "Is it safe?" Expediency asks the question, "Is it politic?" And Vanity comes along and asks the question, "Is it popular?" But Conscience asks the question, "Is it right?" And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Concience tells him it is right.

Questions -

1) In your previous post, where did you get 80,000? I managed to get 30,000 from an independent study (I think I still have the website if you want to research it) while Zoom is a different post gets 100,000. Sounds like a Christies's auction for Beatles memorabilia!!! Could you please quote chapter and verse on your figures.

Airport security being an extension of the power mongering

2) What the *** does that mean, or is it truly a Grima Wormtongue?

3) Do you prefer the term Islamist or Islamofascist to describe mass-murderous holy warriors?

4) I question many things every day. Why do I go the office?
Answer - to fund my holidays and ensure that I walk away with a million bucks in 6 years.

It used to be 'Clothes maketh the Man'.
Now it's 'Depleted uranium maketh the jihadi/shaheed/mujahhadin'.
The first attempt to destroy the World Trade Center was back in 1996, so who was blanketing the moslem world with depleted uranium 10 years ago?
The Russians may have left some lying around Afghanistan during their invasion and occupation between 1979 and 1990, but the USA didn't bother with the place until after 9/11, except for funding and materially helping the ungrateful mujahhadin to defeat the Soviets in the first place.

62. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 8y

wotthefiqh, my count of 80,000 people has nothing to do with Iraq. It was a hypothetical question: "If your government was responisble for the deaths of 80,000 people would you really want to know about it?"

Airport security is an extension of the governments hand. I will try to spell out my point. Governments need citizens to survive, and as most beasts, governments will do all that is required to survive. So, if governments need citizens, what is the best way to control citizens? Through fear. What we are seeing now is governments around the world vying for more control and power, they do that by increasing the amount of fear the masses hold.

If you release a report saying "37 Terrorists arrested, stopping unheard of devistation!" People are scared, and greatful at the same time. "It's a good thing we have the government to protect us from the Barbarians".

It's the same old story, eons past. The barbarians are always at the gate, if they weren't we would have no need for governments.

63. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 8y

Quoting Brendan

wotthefiqh, my count of 80,000 people has nothing to do with Iraq. It was a hypothetical question: "If your government was responisble for the deaths of 80,000 people would you really want to know about it?"

Airport security is an extension of the governments hand. I will try to spell out my point. Governments need citizens to survive, and as most beasts, governments will do all that is required to survive. So, if governments need citizens, what is the best way to control citizens? Through fear. What we are seeing now is governments around the world vying for more control and power, they do that by increasing the amount of fear the masses hold.

If you release a report saying "37 Terrorists arrested, stopping unheard of devistation!" People are scared, and greatful at the same time. "It's a good thing we have the government to protect us from the Barbarians".

It's the same old story, eons past. The barbarians are always at the gate, if they weren't we would have no need for governments.

80,000 - My initial belief was that you were quoting 80,000 deaths in Iraq from some authoritative source, not making a hypothetical intro into what could be construed as a political conspiracy theory.
You could always contact the Sudanese government about the estimated 200,000+ deaths in Darfur and the hundreds of thousands displaced by state violence and murder. I'm sure President Al-Bashir doesn't want us to know the true facts about it.

Security - Airport security is an absolute necessity because of Islamist mass-murderers. I can't recall any Sikh, Buddhist, Shinto or Amish suicide bombers attacking innocent people in the name of the faith.
Governments don't really like citizens, but citizens need decent governments to survive otherwise you have anarchy (think Mad Max 2). Citizens vote politicians out of office (scarce as hen's teeth in most moslem countries), hold governments accountable (scarce as rocking horse shit in most moslem countries), expect them to create peaceful, secure,civil and economically-viable societies (few and far between in most moslem countries), and would much prefer to have their taxes spent on education, health and infrastructure rather than Homeland Security and thousands of beefy neanderthals wielding M16's or Speyr rifles.

Arrested - Should we be pissed off instead?

Barbarians - Sounds like the hoary old conspiracy about America needing a new enemy after Soviet communism finally rotted off the bones of the proletariat.
I would rather live under a western-style and deeply-flawed democratic government than an Islamic government (e.g. Iran) or no government at all (e.g. Somalia). John Howard gets my vote every time.

Hamid Gul, ex-chief of the Pakistan Intelligence Service, reckons that 9/11 was planned and carried out by Mossad and the CIA to blacken the name of Islam?
Top that for a conspiracy theory!!!

El Legendado

64. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 8y

Interesting argument, all I saw was mostly derogatory & generalised comments towards Islam and it's followers; I thought we were having an actauly discussion, I guess I was wrong.

65. Posted by Jase007 (Travel Guru 8868 posts) 8y

One idea could always go back to the days before the free travel between countries.
If the boarders were put back up through out EU and other bloc's of countries. EVERYONE would be force into going through security checks every time they go through a boarder.
Freedom to travel aound on a wim and be watched on CCTV cameras everywhere or secure boarders and the freedom to roam the country?
Air travel is too cheap on the whole nowdays and the systems can't cope with the millions who fly every day. Security halls in most airports were design 20 years ago and have been updated continually, but still remain dated in design.
To brand a religeon a cause is doing exacly what the Nazi's did in the 1930's. Huge sweaping generalisations can be naive and dangerous, it's that sort of banter that some will use to propergate and use for their own benifit.

66. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 8y

Quoting Brendan

Interesting argument, all I saw was mostly derogatory & generalised comments towards Islam and it's followers; I thought we were having an actauly discussion, I guess I was wrong.

Six months after 9/11, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf made a speech at a scientific conference and said -
"The Muslim Ummah, or the Islamic world, is the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most un-enlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race."
I simply made some pertinent and factual remarks about the abject poverty and tyrannies in the Moslem world as noted by President Musharraf, and laced them with two good old Aussie expressions (scarce as hens teeth, scarce as rocking horse shit).

derogatory - showing strong disapproval and not showing respect

If you regard my Aussieisms as derogatory, so be it.

My definition of derogatory -

A few weeks ago Moslem leaders here in Australia requested that my government recognise Hezbollah as a political party, after it's military wing had killed a number of Israeli soldiers, kidnapped two and rocketed villages and towns in Northern Israel.
John Howard's response to this request was 'No chance'. Moslem derogation of democratic principles.

Moslem leaders in the UK have requested the government to allow some aspects of Sharia Law be introduced so that young moslems don't turn to mass-murder. Could you pass that contempt for Western democratic law and values by me again!!!

Australia's Treasurer Peter Costello made a speech a few months ago in which he said that if any moslem wished to live under Sharia Law, they had better leave the country as it was never going to happen. Moslem leaders, as expected, freaked out and called his speech provocative. Just another moslem derogation.

If you have any concrete evidence whatsoever of a political conspiracy to induce fear and loathing of Islam into western society, please produce it. Maybe some Mongergate tapes as per the Watergate tapes?
In return I could list each and every act of Islamic terrorism, every call to Jihad, every murder fatwa and every expression of hate and violence against the West mouthed by mullahs and ayatollahs in the past 25 years (since the ascension of Khomenei to the Peacock throne). Now that would be one helluva long post!!!

I find it very hard to have a discussion with nothing more substantial than smoke and mirrors.

67. Posted by Jase007 (Travel Guru 8868 posts) 8y

Moslem leaders in the UK have requested the government to allow some aspects of Sharia Law be introduced so that young moslems don't turn to mass-murder. Could you pass that contempt for Western democratic law and values by me again!!!

- No chance of it ever happening, but an example of two legal systems is New Zealand - Maori can ask to be tried under Maori law (i'm not sure it applies to all criminal activites) so are you saying that the Maori have the same contempt for democratic law as the Moslem clerics?

In return I could list each and every act of Islamic terrorism, every call to Jihad, every murder fatwa and every expression of hate and violence against the West mouthed by mullahs and ayatollahs in the past 25 years (since the ascension of Khomenei to the Peacock throne). Now that would be one helluva long post!!!
I find it very hard to have a discussion with nothing more substantial than smoke and mirrors.

The original question posed on the thread was Airport security - over reaction?.
If you have this view of the Islamic faith, do you also hold the same view for the Catholic church? There was a time when they were burning thousands at the stake, burning villages and murdering people in the name of an inquisition. They also stood by whilst the holocaust took place. I'm curious to how you feel about it?

68. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 8y

I think this issue lies far deeper than airport security, pre-emptive war, conspiracy. The elite & wealthy classes of our world are the ones whom control it. Monarchies, Democracies, Dictatorships, Rogue States - they are all controlled by the powerful, the rich, the violent. They will use any means available to maintain that power, and if need be take everyone down with them.

Governments are insane (afflicted with or characteristic of mental derangement). They do not care about life, about our landbase, or the very elements that life requires. Water, Air, Food... they are being poisened, we are dying.

wotthefiqh (and everyone else), do you believe that the governments of the world (West & East) make their decisions based on the well being of humanity, the well being of their citizens, the well being of future generations?

Do you believe that Westernised Democracy is the only true method of government?

It is told that in Democracy, any member of that society can become a leader. Do you find that only the wealthy and elite are in control?

Do you believe that governments will do anything in their means to survive, even at the cost of their citizens?

Do you have the same views on other religions as you do Islam?

69. Posted by Isadora (Moderator 13924 posts) 8y

I realize that this discussion is an interesting one and that it has been evolving. But, it has also greatly deviated from the original topic. As mentioned earlier, the topic is still: "Airport Security - Over reaction?"

Please return the discussion to it's original topic so others may feel freer to contribute. If you would like to continue with the current direction, either move the discussion over to the Islam thread or start a new one.

As always, please keep the comments from becoming personal in nature. Thank you.

The comments have not become personal in nature and I am aware of that. It's just a reminder for everyone posting here.

70. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 8y

Thanks for the reminder, Isadora.

I will post replies to Jase and Brendan in the 'Islam and Terror' thread.