I dont visit Countrys where women have no rights,where killed in the name of Family Honor and,and,and.
If this makes me a racist,then I am one.
Looks like Marlis won't be visiting Denmark for a while.
Are there any democratic countries free from this barbarism, and why are you confused?
Looks like Marlis won't be visiting Denmark for a while.
Are there any democratic countries free from this barbarism, and why are you confused?[/quote]
Terrible story about this beautiful Pakistani girl...its a shame and discusting. Its retarted that these things still happen. There are a lot of countries where women have no rights and where girls get murdered for the sake of the honor of the family. But that would not be a reason for me to not going there.
Thanx guys for ur opinions so far...
Isadora: I know that it's a very sensitive topic to talk about and I'm aware that 'I might get it back'...thanx for ur reply in general...
as I've just come home from an 11hr shift, I'll save my story(ies) for Tuesday or so... (hope everyone can understand that I need a break and have some time with my husband, who's still settling in, as we are living in my homecountry now...)
looking forward to some more replies
I agree with you explanation or definition. I will also include the idea that a lot of people have of some people or countries whitout taking any information about it. A lot of people speak abot alot of things they do not not, an generalize them in the same way. Or have an idea of someone, beacuse he comes from... what ever in these countries a lot of people are killed to change things, and the fact that you are maybe talking to one!! (one who don't agree with the idea of this governement). and to have a view of thing, you have to know a little more about culture and countries)
I really hate that! I can't stand any king of racism.
And as zoom says the way some people things their civilisation are sueprior/above of some other make me feel sick.
I don't know any countries who can be preally proud of his History, and a lot of people seems to forget that!
A Racist is a person who thinks #1 An entire group of certain people are all totally alike, that they are not individuals with different views and beliefs AND #2 that that group is inferior to other groups that this person thinks are all a like and equal (but superior in their thinking and achievements to the group he doesn't like). I hear it a lot these days when ignorant idiots call political talk shows and say that about Muslim/Islamic people or about the French because they didn't agree to join Bush's Stupid war on Iraq. Now that we see the true idiot is and ALWAYS has been GWB - since Iraq is now lost and in the middle of a horrible civil war - we also see that The French Government and majority of French people were spot on. I NEVER say 100% of ANY group is the same. But IMO, there's enough idiots in the USA that I've had it with my homeland and am in the process of moving (slowly, due to business complications) to Paris, where I already live part time,and am planning to buy an apartment in Buenos Aires, Argentina in the next 6 months as a second home base. It's only going to get worse and more STUPID in America so it's time to move where the average person has a bit more sense and brains. America's gonna have to sink MUCH lower before it wakes up to what's going on.
BTW, I was in SA for a month in 1984 and I didn't find all white SA's racist. A few were but some were very sympathetic to the blacks. I knew one family that illegally had their housekeeper live with them. She was DEFINITELY part of the family - doing EVERYTHING with them. On the other hand I heard a few not to nice comments but it wasn't everyday/all the time. It was a mixed bag, like most things in life are. Of course I believe Apartheid was wrong and it's days were numbered with the whole world pointing it's crooked finger at SA. Funny, America had one of the biggest fingers pointing at SA but yet , a few years earlier, was hanging (lynching) blacks from trees and light poles for sport and a good time (slightly hypocritical I would say). Today, the Israel/American Government (and many Israeli citizens) practice Apartheid against the Palestinians and no one says a word so it just goes to show you how different countries($$$) have different rules ($$$) depending on different factors ($$$) - it's all SO MAGICAL ($$$) or maybe it's just really simple - Zoom '' Keeping an eye on the truth for my peeps
I think racism can simply be classed as "Fear".
Fear of the unknown
Fear of the misunderstood
Fear of Change
A White Man may "Fear" a Black Man as he doesn't, can't, won't understand him.
Equally, a Black Man may "Fear" a White Man for exactly the same reasons.
As Yoda (aka George Lucas) said:
"Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to Suffering."
Sweeping statements and generalisations have no place in the multicultural and inter-racial world we live in today and in my humble opinion, I can't wait until, as Geographical constraints become more and more obsolete, the Human "Race" is the only "race" on this planet!
How did you and your husband deal with the knee-jerk reactions of people with narrow visions of the world? I've experienced similar things here, and appalling as it is to have to hear these sorts of comments, I found the best way to deal with them was to talk to the "comment-ors" about their statements. It hasn't always worked, but it was always worth the try. I supervise workers who have made horrible comments about different ethnicities and I have managed to get them to stop such slurs by talking to them about it. Again, it hasn't always worked, but some have stopped that behavior, and the others don't do it in front of me.
I find it interesting that some of my countrymen/women have begun to group many Americans, calling us ignorant, lazy, etc., not unlike trying to classify an ethnic group. It's so easy to point fingers, yet so difficult to actually foment change. Funny world, isn't it?
I'd like to wish Zoom the best of luck in his moves to Paris and BA. He seems to have a perfectly sensible, albeit pedestrian, reason for fleeing the United States: he doesn't like the government or most of the people. Our democracy demands that he have the freedom to do as he wishes, so long as he does no harm.
Zoom, I trust that you will find the peaceful utopia that you so desperately seek. It must be out there somewhere, and hopefully for you, it is Paris or BA. Both are beautiful, world-class cities.
And I sincerely hope that you will find nothing but sympathetic ears that will listen to and accept your highly knowledgeable diatribes about the faults of the world and, particularly, the United States and the majority of its citizens, over wine at the cafe. Certainly you will find compatriots to regale with explicit stories of the horrors of life in the US; how previously decent people turned into xenophobic idiots at the drop of an election hat. Should be riveting.
Don't forget to tell your newfound friends how you bravely fled your country to avoid the curse of stupidity; how rather than fighting for change from within, as a coward would, you valiantly chose to criticize from a distance. You will be among an elite crowd: the intellectual finger-pointers.
So, I wish you all the best, my friend and fellow citizen. Hurry, you must leave this country now, before it is too late and you are forever tainted. I shall carry on your fight for truth and justice for some. Please be careful not to let New York hit you in the ass on the way out.
Your formerly-fellow peep
How did my husband and I deal with it?
Well, when we first started dating it was hard for me to understand his opinion about certain things anyway, because I didn't know enough about it (situation in ZA etc.)
The longer we dated, the more things he told me, things that happened in his life, while he was still living in ZA and I could understand better, but nevertheless was looking forward to the day, when I'd go to ZA myself (which happened this year).
In the meantime when people said to me 'South Africans are all racists' I sometimes talked to them, questioned them, sometimes I'd just say nothing and forget about it. Especially in NZ I found it ridicoulus and not worth explaining, as u don't wanna know many people's opinions about Maori, the Asians (Immigrants) etc.
I think it's not ok to judge someone, if u haven't got a clue about their culture, country, history, personal life etc. It is so easy to say something about a certain 'race', nationality, just because we've heard something in the media, from other people, etc.
When I went to ZA this year (we were there for 2months) sometimes I was suprised about things I did, the way I thought...
1 example: It was my first day in Johannesburg and we went to a shopping centre. I had to use the bathroom there, but couldn't find it. I wanted to ask someone and was looking for someone to do so, when I realised, that I was looking for someone 'white' to do that (I apologise if someone doesn't like the words I use, but in this case it's the easiest).
Immediately I felt bad, but better when I saw a documentary on TV(it was about 'instincts', trusts etc. between people, what type of face makes u feel comfortable and decide to trust this person, which 'skincolour' didn't. When shown pictures to people, it was natural for 'blacks' to choose the 'Black' person and the other way round. But also when there were certain features, like narrow eyes, grimm looking face, everyone, no matter what the skin colour, chose the same face again)
I enjoyed South Africa a lot and it was good to see how much was actually true, of what I had heard before. It was nice to talk to people of different age, race, gender and hear what they think.
So what is racism for me? I guess, I still don't really now, although I like the 'fear' explanation a lot I read earlier.
I just wanna tell u about one more experience I had in ZA, before I finish this post:
my husband, my friend and I were walking in Cape Town on a footpath, always turning around looking back, because we wanted to take a 'Black taxi' into the city. We saw a 'black' guy, coming from behind walking much faster than us, so of course my friend and I went to one side and my husband on the other to make space for him.
As he passed us he turned around and said something to us, which I couldn't understand. He said it again, but it I just said 'Sorry, I don't know what u mean'. Then he said 'I might be black and young, but I'm not stupid.' I just shook my head, bec I just didn't get, what he was going on about. Only after he had taken off, I was trying to make up what he had said and realised that he asked my friend and I 'Are u scared?' He thought we went to the side of the footpath, bec we were scared of him and didn't want him to walk between us (2 girls). And I didn't understand, bec he pronounced the word 'scared' in such a different way.
Anyway, I'm always careful with what I say and do, but sometimes it doesn't matter and things like that happen. At this stage it is just important to me, that my husband will be happy in my homecountry and already now it is interesting to see, how people react, when they hear that he is 'South African'!
that's it for now
I usually don't want to get into threads like this but when I read the title I spontaneously had to think of the song lyrics of one of my favourite bands, Faithless and here's an extract of their song
Whether long range weapon or suicide bomber
Wicked mind is a weapon of mass destruction
Whether your soar away sun or BBC 1
Disinformation is a weapon of mass destruction
You're called a Caucasian or a poor Asian
Racism is a weapon of mass destruction
Whether inflation or globalization
Fear is a weapon of mass destruction.
I don't think racism needs to be defined but what I know is that we should never let it become a weapon of mass destruction.
Kathi, I wish you and your husband all the best for the future.
To me, a racist is one who improperly uses race as a factor in defining or evaluating the merit of any given individual. It differs little from other forms of prejudicial decision-making such as using ethnicity or age as an appropriate mechanism of judging another.