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Happy September 11th?

Travel Forums Off Topic Happy September 11th?

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11. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 10y

That's all that was on TV yesterday - memorials and documentaries and interviews about 9/11. It was odd watching a documentary on Discovery about "The Flight that Fought Back". They re-enacted what they think happened on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania, piecing togetehr phone calls and family's accounts of the black-box tapes (which are still not released to the public).

Everyone interviewed was convinced their loved one was a hero - helping to bring down the plane. Only one person said that they hoped their loved one helped in some way, as opposed to stating it as fact. It was like they felt the need to turn the victims into heros - somehow helping to make sense of it all. I felt awful for them, but it also felt like they were trying to rewrite history - stating speculation as fact. It's a long, slippery slope from there.

Plus I have a bugaboo about the word "hero", which is thrown around so much it has no meaning anymore.

12. Posted by Peter (Admin 5812 posts) 10y

Quoting tway

Plus I have a bugaboo about the word "hero", which is thrown around so much it has no meaning anymore.

Yeah, I have that same problem! Like the little kids that are battling a life threatening illness are all of a sudden a "hero". I hate to be heartless, but a hero is someone who is brave enough to risk their own life to save someone else's.

So, in fairness, the people on that plane who did something about it probably can be considered heros. But you're right, it gets used so flippantly that the real meaning is all but gone.

13. Posted by Cupcake (Travel Guru 8468 posts) 10y

I feel the same way Peter. Like obituarys that say "They passed after a heroic battle with cancer" Well guess what? What real choice do they have??? How does that make it heroic?? Annoys the hell out of me....

As for the Pearl Harbor comment. Yes, I still talk about Pearl Harbor....history is very improtant to me.

14. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 10y

Quoting james

Then maybe George Bush should go after Ronald McDonald and the Hamburglar instead of Osama Bin Laden

I really think he should. I think the Hamburglar deserves to be "water-boarded" more than anyone else at Guatanemo.

Quoting busbybrack

I think 911 will eventually settle down. I mean, do ppl still talkabout the pearl Hobor day?

I know it's important to rememeber history, but sometimes ppl use it to draw addention, you know?

I agree busbybrack, we should certainly remember the past. Remember though: "Whomever controls the present controls the past; whomever controls the past controls the future"

  • Heroes*

I couldn't agree more about "Heroes", and it's loss of meaning and value. There are certainly true heroes, they are harder to find than the media leads us to believe though.

When you think about the attacks on Pearl Harbour, do you think about the U.S. government fully knowing the attacks were on the way, and they allowed them to happen to give them a reason for total war?

On the same note, that the Project for the New American Century think-tank mentioned long before September 11th 2001, after Gulf War 1, that for the people of the United States to support any movement into the Middle East "a new Pearl Harbour would be needed".

[ Edit: Edited at Sep 11, 2006 10:38 PM by Brendan ]

15. Posted by SeeTheSky (Respected Member 558 posts) 10y

september eleventh pisses me off.

im from new york. i know people that lost fathers, mothers, all kinds of losses from it. but i think this has become a shining symbol of idiocy.
it is blind patriotism, in many cases blind rage, and an overall blown out of proportion catastrophe inevitable in any large goverened body.

many countries has dealt with things innumerably worse than this. and we use it as fuel for some self righteous crusade of death and decay, laying waste to any attempt for peace and goodness.

maybe that was harsh, but you cannot deny the truth in that.

how about all the unsuspecting civilians did we obliterate, as well as make lasting nuclear radiation that would taint the land of hiroshima and nagasaki, and how much do we not give a fuck about that. we don't even feel compulsions of grief or embarrasment about that.

and thats just a very very tiny tip of a horrifying iceberg of much worse events occured to other countries and peoples.

so mourn if you need to, remember what must be remembered, but move on, live and accept it. dont dwell and make it some retarted legacy of american moronathon. most people who flip out about it arent even new yorkers, or have anything to do with it.
its become a beast that cannot be fed.

so brendan, i dont see any problem on that.

yes, its tragic. yes, you should remember.
no, you should not advertise the shit out of a minor catastrophe in order to make your dick swell with pride.

thats it.

16. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 10y

Quoting SeeTheSky

september eleventh pisses me off.

im from new york. i know people that lost fathers, mothers, all kinds of losses from it. but i think this has become a shining symbol of idiocy.
it is blind patriotism, in many cases blind rage, and an overall blown out of proportion catastrophe inevitable in any large goverened body.

many countries has dealt with things innumerably worse than this. and we use it as fuel for some self righteous crusade of death and decay, laying waste to any attempt for peace and goodness.

maybe that was harsh, but you cannot deny the truth in that.

how about all the unsuspecting civilians did we obliterate, as well as make lasting nuclear radiation that would taint the land of hiroshima and nagasaki, and how much do we not give a fuck about that. we don't even feel compulsions of grief or embarrasment about that.

and thats just a very very tiny tip of a horrifying iceberg of much worse events occured to other countries and peoples.

so mourn if you need to, remember what must be remembered, but move on, live and accept it. dont dwell and make it some retarted legacy of american moronathon. most people who flip out about it arent even new yorkers, or have anything to do with it.
its become a beast that cannot be fed.

so brendan, i dont see any problem on that.

yes, its tragic. yes, you should remember.
no, you should not advertise the shit out of a minor catastrophe in order to make your dick swell with pride.

thats it.

Harsh words STS, harsh words.

17. Posted by beerman (Respected Member 1631 posts) 10y

All true, across the board. My only point was to maintain a certain respect for the dead and their families, regardless of whether or not you think they deserve respect.

I still maintain the belief, though, that if the citizenry of virtually any country in the world knew every detail of corruption in their government, there would be mass uprisings in the world and leaders would be strung up from lampposts as examples of evil. They need not be mourned.

I shudder at the thought of people voluntarily giving up rights that are the basis of our Constitution because some greedy, loathesome turd of a politician is hiding secrets that would otherwise have him ousted. I have seen too many polls in the news recently that say that 40% (or so) of the population would allow unreasonable searches of other people if it meant that they themselves would be "safe".

What have we come to? Stab thy neighbor before he stabs you?

Perhaps it is time for a beer.......I'll just go check....

18. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 10y

Quoting beerman

I shudder at the thought of people voluntarily giving up rights that are the basis of our Constitution because some greedy, loathesome turd of a politician is hiding secrets that would otherwise have him ousted. I have seen too many polls in the news recently that say that 40% (or so) of the population would allow unreasonable searches of other people if it meant that they themselves would be "safe".

What gets me is that people who would willingly accept such searches still believe they're living in a democracy. Once you start searching people without reason, you've turned into - at the very least - a socialist state. You can't have your cake and eat it too - preaching Freedom (TM) and democracy while putting people in Guantanamo without trial or calling people who disagree with the government "anti-American". Democracy comes with some pretty big discomforts, too.

Another thing I noticed: they no longer show clips of th planes crashing into the twin towers on TV. You see the plane coming close, then the picture fades, then you see the building on fire. Who pulled the plug on that? It's gone the way of the photo of the poor jumping man that ran for only 1 day. We can't sanitize history. We've somehow replaced the initial shock and disbelief of it all with some kind of packaged media deal complete with buzzwords, dramatizatons, simplitzatons, and doctored footage. What can't we handle now that we handled before?

19. Posted by mikeyBoab (Travel Guru 5077 posts) 10y

Quoting tway

Once you start searching people without reason, you've turned into - at the very least - a socialist state.

Socialism has nothing to do with this.

20. Posted by Peter (Admin 5812 posts) 10y

Quoting tway

Another thing I noticed: they no longer show clips of th planes crashing into the twin towers on TV.

They're still showing it in these parts. And it never fails to send a chill down my spine. :(