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e.u. citizenship

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11. Posted by tzindaro (Budding Member 11 posts) 9y

Quoting bentivogli

It seems to me that you're contradicting yourself. If you're so much in favour of world citizenship, why would you be so interested in changing nationalities and not just settle for residency? After all, being American or European in your book would all be the same, wouldn't it?

No contradiction. I disaprove of the nation-state system, but that disaproval will not get me residence in Europe. A passport from any E.U. country would.

12. Posted by tzindaro (Budding Member 11 posts) 9y

I know what the law says. That is what I ment, that it SAYS one thing, but MEANS another. The laws are sold to the public on the fear of a Moslem take-over, with resulting uncomfortable culture shock. What is the difference between American culture and German culture? Certain foods? The type of beer? Just how would a white American who knew the language not fit in? Many Germans have told me they do not want anymore "foreigners" in the country, but then have offered to help me get official status. They do not include a white American in the catagory of "foreigner" The word in actual practice implies Moslems or Asians. Most Germans have no problem with the relatively small number of white American, Australian, Canadian, or other foreigners who want to immigrate. For the rest: I have been to Europe many times. I have spent up to several months at a time there. I can read German (and French, Spanish, and Dutch) well enough to follow a newspaper. I know a little about German politics. If they wanted to require a language test, I would have no objection. My objection is to discriminating on grounds of something I cannot control, such as place of birth. And it is not so easy to get residence unless you have some rare skill that is not readily available in the E.U., something which is almost impossible since the E.U. is so developed a region with so many educated people. If you know something about the procedure that is not on the German government website, please tell me. Thank you.

Quoting t_maia

The immigration laws are passed with Moslems and Asians in mind, and them applied to the stray American or Australian to avoid the appearence of racism.

That is rubbish if you ask me. Even if such a racial purpose was there, it would not be able to get into the law. The German law text regarding foreigner reads "foreigner", not "Asian" or "Black". It is totally objective. Racism is sujective and man-made. The officer might be stricter when it comes to proving sufficient funds for an immigrant from Africa, but they can play just as hardball against an EU-citizen who doesn't play by the rules laid down in the law book.

Besides, who ever said I did not plan to live in Europe? I do intend to live there. I just said I want to get citizenship as soon as possible, without a long residence period being required first.

There is a reason why Germany and other countries do not hand out citizenships by the bucket load. Being a citizen of a country gives you certain rights and duties. If you are born to it, you will be granted these rights automatically. If not, you have to earn them.

You have to prove your desire to be German by your style of life. This involves living in Germany, speaking the language, knowing your way around a newspaper and having some basic knowledge of key political issues.

You write nothing about whether you have ever been to Europe before.

For years, it was my dream to go to the USA and live there. It did not feel very German at all, but rather like a "Weltenb├╝rger", a world citizen. To me, the whole was my home. My stay in the USA changed that radically. I had never been away from Germany for a longer period of time before, nor been without people I knew. It was from being in the USA that I began to appreciate the fact that I was a German citizen, that German was my native languge, etc. I decided then that life in the USA was not for me, that I would never be able to live in the USA and call it home too.

My dream died when it faced the reality of life in the US.

What about your dream?

I find it very sensible to have a waiting period for foreigners applying for German citizenship. After all if you want, you can go and live in the EU tomorrow. (Feel free to contact me about the procedure for Germany.)

13. Posted by Whitehead (Budding Member 32 posts) 9y

One could argue that the residency laws are based on inheritance issues.

If you consider each country as a family of some sort that has been built over centuries by the citizens then its also acceptable to say that the benefits of living in that country should be given to those that put in the work to build the country in the first place. Failing that their next of kin. Giving citizenship to a foreigner would then be similar to write a stranger into your will.

Im not sure that we are quite that selfish to think about things in that extreme but its a valid point dont you agree?

14. Posted by tzindaro (Budding Member 11 posts) 9y

Quoting Whitehead

One could argue that the residency laws are based on inheritance issues.

If you consider each country as a family of some sort that has been built over centuries by the citizens then its also acceptable to say that the benefits of living in that country should be given to those that put in the work to build the country in the first place. Failing that their next of kin. Giving citizenship to a foreigner would then be similar to write a stranger into your will.

Im not sure that we are quite that selfish to think about things in that extreme but its a valid point dont you agree?

No. As I pointed out in a previous post, if someone is in a country to work and is paying taxes, they are contributing to the economy exactly as much as those who were born there. It would make more sense to treat everyone by the same standards. If you can justify treating people differently according to their ancestry, you might as well punish the children of criminals too. It is exactly the same logic.

15. Posted by bentivogli (Travel Guru 2398 posts) 9y

Quoting t_maia

The immigration laws are passed with Moslems and Asians in mind, and them applied to the stray American or Australian to avoid the appearence of racism.

That is rubbish if you ask me. Even if such a racial purpose was there, it would not be able to get into the law. The German law text regarding foreigner reads "foreigner", not "Asian" or "Black". It is totally objective. Racism is sujective and man-made. The officer might be stricter when it comes to proving sufficient funds for an immigrant from Africa, but they can play just as hardball against an EU-citizen who doesn't play by the rules laid down in the law book.

Way, Maia! I tried not to get irritated with this nonsense, glad to see that others did :)

Niels

16. Posted by Pardus (Respected Member 2356 posts) 9y

Quoting tzindaro

No contradiction. I disaprove of the nation-state system, but that disaproval will not get me residence in Europe. A passport from any E.U. country would.

If I am not mistaken you can get residence without having an EU passport. You can enter any EU state on a tourist visa (which is valid for 90 days, I think) and then look for a job to get a working visa.
I have had residence in Ireland without being an EU citizen for almost 6 years now that way.

17. Posted by pfeiffer (Full Member 211 posts) 9y

Quoting Purdy

Just a word of warning here folks - keep this friendly and above board - there is nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate and this is an interesting thread but if ANY posts get in any way antagonistic or l feel encroach on the form rules l will have no qualms about deleting the post!

Aside from the nonsensical opinions expressed, isn't this off-topic with respect to travel in Europe?

-Kevin
--
Kevin Pfeiffer

18. Posted by Purdy (Travel Guru 3546 posts) 9y

The thread has started off as a request for information as regards EU citizenship so in that respect it is related to EUROPE - not persay travel as such but it still fits within the Europe forum.

As l stated should the thread go off topic, cause conflict or in ANY break the forum rules then appropriate action will be taken.

At the moment l am letting it run as some of the points especially those from t_maia are relevant and indeed my be of use to other travellers to Germany out there.

19. Posted by tzindaro (Budding Member 11 posts) 9y

Quoting Purdy

The thread has started off as a request for information as regards EU citizenship so in that respect it is related to EUROPE - not persay travel as such but it still fits within the Europe forum.

As l stated should the thread go off topic, cause conflict or in ANY break the forum rules then appropriate action will be taken.

At the moment l am letting it run as some of the points especially those from t_maia are relevant and indeed my be of use to other travellers to Germany out there.

Actually, we are ALL off-topic. The original post was a request for information on HOW to do it, not an invitation to express opinions on If it should be done. I am not interested in anyones' opinions on it. I have already made up my mind and cannot be disuaded by any argument. Likewise, I am not expecting to convince anyone who is in disagreement with me, and fortunately, I do not have to. It seems I simply chose the wrong place to seek information. Sorry to have bothered anyone. I shall look elsewhere for the information I need.

20. Posted by Whitehead (Budding Member 32 posts) 9y

Tzindaro, You are quite right we are probably off topic.
It is a question the evokes a good ethical debat though. I couldn't resist. All thee best, good luck.