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131. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting dr.pepper

If I were to believe that, I would have to reject one central teaching of Christ. "I am the way, the truth and the life... No one comes to the father but by me." In other words, the way to get to heaven is through faith in Christ - there's no other way. It's a pretty exclusive claim, which contrasts with your idea that people of all faiths (including those which are not in Christ) will end up in heaven. So to believe what you believe implies a rejection of that teaching of Christ. To me, to reject the teachings of Christ is to reject Christianity (seeing as he's the founder of the faith).

Eric

I can't agree with that. Because that is not possible. That means that 2/3 of the worldpopulation are believing nothing. So you are the superiour believer....Eric? The muslims, hindus and buddhists think exactly the same as you do. So, who is right?. The only explanation is that we all believe in the same god as the source. We have the same basics of peace and love, remarkable?. Your god is the muslim god and vica versa. Allah is just arabic for god.

132. Posted by john7buck (Respected Member 458 posts) 9y

Quoting dr.pepper

Quoting Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ

Quoting dr.pepper

[quote=dr.Pepper]
I also believe that people are entitled to believe that their beliefs are correct. Is it logical to believe that every belief system is equally correct, when a few tell me that I will die and go to heaven, another tells me I'll be reincarnated, and another tells me I'll just die and that's it? Doesn't seem logical to me that we could all be right...

I am sure that we all believe in the same god. From the christians to the muslims to the hindus. It has all the same source, namely god. The differences are there because of culture, location and time. All religions talk about heaven, remarkable? So actually you will shake hands with a Hindu and an Islamist in heaven, and the differences are gone;).

If I were to believe that, I would have to reject one central teaching of Christ. "I am the way, the truth and the life... No one comes to the father but by me." In other words, the way to get to heaven is through faith in Christ - there's no other way. It's a pretty exclusive claim, which contrasts with your idea that people of all faiths (including those which are not in Christ) will end up in heaven. So to believe what you believe implies a rejection of that teaching of Christ. To me, to reject the teachings of Christ is to reject Christianity (seeing as he's the founder of the faith).

Eric

For arguments sake (and I apologize, I haven't read near every post), let's say there is a Mongol herdsman living a nomadic life on the Mongolian Steppe. He has never encountered a Christian missionary or been given a Bible. He is, however, the most just and moral herdsman that ever was. He lives by all of the "Christian principles" of charity, love, compassion, et all; but has never learned anything about Christ.

Are you telling me that because Man and God placed him in that life and geographic isolation, that dude has no chance of getting into Heaven?

133. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting john7buck

For arguments sake (and I apologize, I haven't read near every post), let's say there is a Mongol herdsman living a nomadic life on the Mongolian Steppe. He has never encountered a Christian missionary or been given a Bible. He is, however, the most just and moral herdsman that ever was. He lives by all of the "Christian principles" of charity, love, compassion, et all; but has never learned anything about Christ.

Are you telling me that because Man and God placed him in that life and geographic isolation, that dude has no chance of getting into Heaven?

Would you think these people don't have one sort of a religion? Do you have proof for that, after that please come back;).

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 7, 2007, at 5:39 PM by Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ ]

134. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 9y

Quoting john7buck

Quoting dr.pepper

Quoting Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ

Quoting dr.pepper

[quote=dr.Pepper]
I also believe that people are entitled to believe that their beliefs are correct. Is it logical to believe that every belief system is equally correct, when a few tell me that I will die and go to heaven, another tells me I'll be reincarnated, and another tells me I'll just die and that's it? Doesn't seem logical to me that we could all be right...

I am sure that we all believe in the same god. From the christians to the muslims to the hindus. It has all the same source, namely god. The differences are there because of culture, location and time. All religions talk about heaven, remarkable? So actually you will shake hands with a Hindu and an Islamist in heaven, and the differences are gone;).

If I were to believe that, I would have to reject one central teaching of Christ. "I am the way, the truth and the life... No one comes to the father but by me." In other words, the way to get to heaven is through faith in Christ - there's no other way. It's a pretty exclusive claim, which contrasts with your idea that people of all faiths (including those which are not in Christ) will end up in heaven. So to believe what you believe implies a rejection of that teaching of Christ. To me, to reject the teachings of Christ is to reject Christianity (seeing as he's the founder of the faith).

Eric

For arguments sake (and I apologize, I haven't read near every post), let's say there is a Mongol herdsman living a nomadic life on the Mongolian Steppe. He has never encountered a Christian missionary or been given a Bible. He is, however, the most just and moral herdsman that ever was. He lives by all of the "Christian principles" of charity, love, compassion, et all; but has never learned anything about Christ.

Are you telling me that because Man and God placed him in that life and geographic isolation, that dude has no chance of getting into Heaven?

My understanding is that you must openly reject Christ as your saviour to have "no chance of getting into Heaven"..

135. Posted by john7buck (Respected Member 458 posts) 9y

That wasn't my point. In fact, I was trying to agree with you.

The point being that whether that herdsman be Buddhist, Communist Atheist or Animist, the fact that he was born into that life and situation and possibly not a believer in Christ does not qualify him for Heaven, seems crazy to me.

I apologize if I was misunderstood. Anyway, I'm not an authority on religion so I may bow out gracefully. . .

136. Posted by dr.pepper (Travel Guru 316 posts) 9y

Quoting john7buck

For arguments sake (and I apologize, I haven't read near every post), let's say there is a Mongol herdsman living a nomadic life on the Mongolian Steppe. He has never encountered a Christian missionary or been given a Bible. He is, however, the most just and moral herdsman that ever was. He lives by all of the "Christian principles" of charity, love, compassion, et all; but has never learned anything about Christ.

Are you telling me that because Man and God placed him in that life and geographic isolation, that dude has no chance of getting into Heaven?

That's a tough one and to be honest I don't know how God deals with that, so I won't attempt to answer. Which probably seems like quite an unsatisfactory response, but I'm happy to admit I don't have all the answers.

137. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 9y

Quoting john7buck

That wasn't my point. In fact, I was trying to agree with you.

The point being that whether that herdsman be Buddhist, Communist Atheist or Animist, the fact that he was born into that life and situation and possibly not a believer in Christ does not qualify him for Heaven, seems crazy to me.

I apologize if I was misunderstood. Anyway, I'm not an authority on religion so I may bow out gracefully. . .

Don't bow out gracefully; do as I do in these threads and bow out disgracefully

138. Posted by john7buck (Respected Member 458 posts) 9y

Quoting james

Quoting john7buck

That wasn't my point. In fact, I was trying to agree with you.

The point being that whether that herdsman be Buddhist, Communist Atheist or Animist, the fact that he was born into that life and situation and possibly not a believer in Christ does not qualify him for Heaven, seems crazy to me.

I apologize if I was misunderstood. Anyway, I'm not an authority on religion so I may bow out gracefully. . .

Don't bow out gracefully; do as I do in these threads and bow out disgracefully

Good idea.

Phhhrraaapppppp. Fart noise, fart noise.

139. Posted by dr.pepper (Travel Guru 316 posts) 9y

Quoting Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ

I can't agree with that. Because that is not possible. That means that 2/3 of the worldpopulation are believing nothing. So you are the superiour believer....Eric? The muslims, hindus and buddhists think exactly the same as you do. So, who is right?. The only explanation is that we all believe in the same god as the source. We have the same basics of peace and love, remarkable?. Your god is the muslim god and vica versa. Allah is just arabic for god.

I understand your point of view, but I believe it is acceptable for people to believe that they are right and others are wrong.

For example, did you just think that what I said was incorrect?

Do you think that people are wrong to think that women are worth less than men (which, as an aside, is a belief with no Biblical basis and is very much a perversion of the way the Bible represents the male-female relationship)?

Aren't we having this discussion because you think I'm wrong and I think I'm right? :)

Eric

140. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting dr.pepper

That's a tough one and to be honest I don't know how God deals with that, so I won't attempt to answer. Which probably seems like quite an unsatisfactory response, but I'm happy to admit I don't have all the answers.

Who says that those people aren't involved in some sort of religion?

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