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Americans and religion

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251. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting ジェームス

Quoting Mel.

Quoting james

I don't want to derail this thread, but I do think that homosexuality is wrong on many levels.

As for "proof" of God, what sort of proof would satisfy you?

What levels are u talking about? I dont think people having sex with same sex people are harming anybody?

Any proof of God, which makes sense and is logical would interest me.
Satisify, is too strong a word, to use here. It suggests not seeking further knowledge.

Satisfy is certainly not too strong a word. What, you want inconclusive proof, or just "a bit" of proof. How about "some" proof, but not enough for you to really be sure?

I am not really looking for somebody to convince me that God, or whatever exists. I am just intersted in having a more informed opinion, about why religion has such a grip on people.

252. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ

Quoting Mel.

No, it is not all about multiplying. The children we leave behind are only one part of our afterlife. But i think this is the most important part. Not the number of children we have, but how well we nurture them, and help them to develop into the people they are supposed to be.

out of your reply i still understand that we only live for reproduction. that is a normal phenomenon in nature. because it happens with animals, flora and human being. nobody can deny that, that is a fact. but then there are still the religious people (the majority of the world) that believe in a paradise after death. i don't know what to think about paradise but it would be quite scary to know that everything is dark, for ever, after you died. probably you are not aware of that darkness but you could be questioning why we are on earth. and i know that question is impossible to answer. probably we live to have fun in life and travel as much as we can. but still.....not sure. very complicated matter, this is;).

Well, here is another example of the afterlife, then.
If u invent something, u live on in the world after your death.
Death is the greatest peace u will ever know, in my opinion. It is heaven. Look how many people are trying to create that heaven on earth, with spirituality, drugs, alcohol etc. Yeah, drugs may cause them to ultimately get hell on earth instead of heaven, but that was not what they intended, when they started. Some find some relaxation and peace, with drugs and alcohol, but others use them in a desperate attempt to numb their pain, in the hope of finding peace.

253. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting ジェームス

Scary and ridiculous? Nah, it's all good stuff straight out of the law books of those that we are supposed to sit down and have a chat over a cup of tea with.

You know, the ones who think that flying some planes into buildings to kill a few thousand Americans (those nasty people who live in the country called the "Great Satan") is a good idea, and will "please Allah". The ones that think that blowing up a nighclub or two to kill a few hundred Australian and Western infidels is another pleasing act. The ones that believe that strapping some bombs to themselves and blowing up a train in the London underground (and why not a bus while we're at it) will please Allah so much that they will ascend to heaven and be given 76 virgins that they can do with what they want and not have to worry about witnesses.

Do you think they want sugar in their tea?

Hello oriental letters

Some say, that they are a bit behind the times, over there, in the muslim countries. We were just as bad here, with our acts of cruelty and injustice a few hundred years ago. Or maybe we dont even have to go back a few hundred years.

254. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting fuchsinrot

what has this conversation come down to? m lost? where r we ? what r u guys talking about?

Just read it again. That is what I do, when I get confused. ;)

255. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Hello oriental letters

Some say, that they are a bit behind the times, over there, in the muslim countries. We were just as bad here, with our acts of cruelty and injustice a few hundred years ago. Or maybe we dont even have to go back a few hundred years.

James has changed his name apparantly. I want to add that only "some" muslims are a little back, namely the fundamentalists. there is the religious islam and the political islam. people such as bin laden and al-zarqawi are using the islam as political weapen as justice for their terrorist attacks. religious islam stands for peace and has nothing to do with politics or gaining power.

256. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

I am not for or against any religion, as u know.
But, there are a lot of barbaric punishments going on in countries, which are heavily Islamic.
It is not just terrorists, like Bin Ladan who do atrocities. Many basic laws of the countries are against human rights. And in those countries, there is barely any separation between religious laws and political laws. In fact religion and politics are practically the same thing.

Here is just one example, and it is about women again, because being one, I am more aware of womens issues, than the issues of other groups. Hope u dont mind.

In Iran last year, a woman was raped by 2 men. She took it to the courts, to try and have justice done. It was decided, that she was anti Islam and was to be sentenced to death, by hanging. Amnesty pleaded with the Iranian government, to have her taken out of Iran.

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 12, 2007, at 6:10 AM by Mel. ]

257. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

In Iran last year, a woman was raped by 2 men. She took it to the courts, to try and have justice done. It was decided, that she was anti Islam and was to be sentenced to death, by hanging. Amnesty pleaded with the Iranian government, to have her taken out of Iran.

yeah its terrible. i don't know what the their book says about this. there are also still corporal punishments in Iran and Saudi. when you get caught at stealing, both your hands will be cut off. but therefore there is needed proof (so atleast a few witnesses according to the book). when drinking alcohol you will get 80 strokes with a stick. these things are in the book. but i don't know about this raped woman. Probably its just to make clear and emphasize who is boss it seems. to show the women that they better not start to speak or get an opinion....

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 12, 2007, at 6:18 AM by Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ ]

258. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ

Quoting Mel.

In Iran last year, a woman was raped by 2 men. She took it to the courts, to try and have justice done. It was decided, that she was anti Islam and was to be sentenced to death, by hanging. Amnesty pleaded with the Iranian government, to have her taken out of Iran.

yeah its terrible. i don't know what the their book says about this. there are also still corporal punishments in Iran and Saudi. when you get caught at stealing, both your hands will be cut off. but therefore there is needed proof (so atleast a few witnesses according to the book). when drinking alcohol you will get 80 strokes with a stick. these things are in the book. but i don't know about this raped woman. Probably its just to make clear and emphasize who is boss it seems. to show the women that they better not start to speak or get an opinion....

I think so too.
It takes a lot of energy and often violence, to keep people supressed. And what is it all for? All discrimination is about greed. Keeping groups of people without rights and education will prevent them from trying to get more of what is available.

But religion. Another reason it was invented, in my opinion, is to achieve our desperate need to love and be loved, as humans. We need love, above anything else. Yet we find it difficult and sometimes impossible to give and receive it. It would be so much easier, if we had all been loved perfectly, all our lives, but I dont think any of us have. One reason religions was invented, was to demand that we all be loving. It was a desperate attempt to get what we need, by making rules instructing us on how to do it. But even religion became warped and twisted. Having religion in the world has sadly become even worse, than not having it.

259. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Are u saying, that a number of withnesses are needed, in order to have somebodies hands cut off, for stealing? That is not true.

260. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Are u saying, that a number of withnesses are needed, in order to have somebodies hands cut off, for stealing? That is not true.

I thought I read that somewhere sometime. I should look that up...

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