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Americans and religion

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51. Posted by fuchsinrot (Budding Member 31 posts) 9y

hey Hien ...

i know that bible doesnt support homosexuality ....
but iv given explanation only from the Islamic point of view .... for why we dont support it ....
i dont know what explanation Bible gives for it not supporting homosexuality ...
i hope that clears matters ;)

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 7, 2007, at 1:03 AM by fuchsinrot ]

52. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

Quoting fuchsinrot

homosexuality ... actually .... in Islam and its Book has been quoted as a Sin ... the biggest sin which wont be forgiven ....
so if it is a sin ... it is a societal disease if a society is supporting it ...
it is against the law of nature ...

That's the problem with religion...where it is mixed up with society. The two should be separated immediately, it's just causing problems.
If one wants to believe some things that have not happend...ok with me, but just keep it for yourself.

53. Posted by fuchsinrot (Budding Member 31 posts) 9y

hey utrecht
u cant separate society and religion u know .... societies are based on united belief .... belief, faith and religion are terms in the same circle ... rnt they? and multiple societies can choose to live together and form countries ... globalization
what is religion? way of life .... what is your way of life? to pray mad day and night and kill those who dont follow ur faith? no ... it is abt going to work, being nice, taking care of people around you and praising God ....
if u give societies a set of rules, apply law and order to them ... based on the teachings of religion .... they function sane .... they will be scared to do the wrong thing (like rape, theft etc) and cause chaos ... if u take law and order out of societies ... u cant possibly imagine people to function normal .... cuz we do have the free will to do right or wrong ... choose to be good or bad ... and you know u r good when u dont feel the need to hide from people ... or feel any embarrassment or guilt in whatever you do ... and u r bad ... when u feel bad or guilt after doing something .... and if u know you wont be questioned or punished after doing anything wrong ... then .... u know what ....
thats another thing when u r so way into doing wrong that u kill ur soul and dont feel bad in doing wrong

54. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

So, why do you need religion for that?
And what about different subreligions within the same religion...does that mean a stable society?

55. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Hello Fuchsinrot

I think religous rules are too outdated to be applied to todays society.
I would give examples, but I fear, that they would be used to fuel prejudice against particular countries, where these religions are popular.

Soceity is progressing and moving forward. We must make laws and rules to suit the times and change them, as we learn more. There is no point in becomming more aware and educated, and sophisticated and then applying medieval type laws.

Mel

56. Posted by Sam I Am (Admin 5588 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

I think religous rules are too outdated to be applied to todays society.
I would give examples, but I fear, that they would be used to fuel prejudice against particular countries, where these religions are popular.

Soceity is progressing and moving forward. We must make laws and rules to suit the times and change them, as we learn more. There is no point in becomming more aware and educated, and sophisticated and then applying medieval type laws.

Speaking from a christianity point of view, I think most Christians would take offense to this comment as you seem to say, "if you believe then you are not aware, educated or sophisticated". There are really only a few 'laws' (commandments) laid out in the bible. These are basic guiding principles and I think you'll find are upheld in pretty much any country in the world's regular laws as it is. Now the churches around it might have created whole new 'laws' but that does not mean they are necessarily part of being a Christian. Important difference! In my experience, the more you find out about a religion, the more you find out how uneducated you have been till then in that religion and how misplaced certain assumptions you've had might be....

fuchsinrot, I think James question was perfectly fair. You can't say "there are 80 million extremist Christians" and not have a definition for it. It is after all what the thread was supposed to be about

57. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Hello Sam

Being spiritual and educated etc can go hand in hand.
But, what is religion? Religion was invented to to put a face and place on spirituality. Many people these days know, that religion is representational and that there is no God. God is a symbol, which represents something, to explain spirituality.
Religion is man made and has been tainted by greed and corruption. We cannot obey religious laws, and mindlessly say that is what God wants. We must decide what is really right and wrong. There may be only 10 commandments, but still there are acts of great cruelty and injustice done, in the name of religion. This goes for Christianity or any other religion. But, I see, that u do agree, that there are only 10 commandments and churches made rules around them. So, maybe we are agreeing, with each other, to some extent.

Mel

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 7, 2007, at 5:49 AM by Mel. ]

58. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting james

fuchsinrot, don't look for a problem where one doesn't exist.

My point is that according to Wouter, 80 million Americans are extremist christians and also according to Wouter, they believe that homosexuality is a disease as they live their lives literally according to to the bible.

Again I ask, where in the bible does it say that homosexuality is a disease?

I agree with Sehrish here. Its true James. Homosexual behaviour is not accepted by everyone. Many religious demoninations reject homosexuality as a sin, as Sehrish mentioned. In certain countries homosexuality is considered as a crime.

Christians and Jews who reject homosexuality do this out of the biblical fact that god has created male and female. And that only these two may have sexual intercourse within marriage. That is why there are found certain passages in the bible that explicitly forbit homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22 en 20:13) or hackle it (Romans 1:26-27), just look them up, James.

In Islam its a little different. I am not muslim so this is based on the information I get, please correct me if necessary. In general heterosexual muslims consider homosexuality as a choice. Homosexual tendency could (according to muslims) be manifestated in different ways from adultery to rape and from necrofilia (sex with dead bodies) to bestiality (the prefering of having sex with animals for example with a penguin...damn that is not so nice). These tendency will occur via media , via Djinn (evil ghost) or via human talking.

To say that muslims are not the only faith that rejects homosexuality. The bible says the same. And it will be a taboo for many centuries, I feel.

59. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Hello Sam

Being spiritual and educated etc can go hand in hand.
But, what is religion? Religion was invented to to put a face and place on spirituality. Many people these days know, that religion is representational and that there is no God. God is a symbol, which represents something, to explain spirituality.
Religion is man made and has been tainted by greed and corruption. We cannot obey religious laws, and mindlessly say that is what God wants. We must decide what is really right and wrong. There may be only 10 commandments, but still there are acts of great cruelty and injustice done, in the name of religion. This goes for Christianity or any other religion. But, I see, that u do agree, that there are only 10 commandments and churches made rules around them. So, maybe we are agreeing, with each other, to some extent.

Mel

Hi Mel. I have a different opinion. First there was the start of Christianity. Then the people came to mess with the literal texts out of the bible. They have put it in a way they like it best. The bible and also the quran should be interpreted as flexible. 2000 or 1400 years ago people lived a little differently, wouldn't you think. The human mind have changed especially after the industrial era. People got wealthy in Europe and Northern-America. Faith became of less importance because people have anything they want (that is materialized world). In the middle ages people believed in witches. They deserved the stake. The church was responsible for that, (imagine its crazy).

Why is it not anymore? Because people realized at a certain period that it is hypocryt to burn innocent women alive. While times change the interpretation of the bible and the quran should change too. Education is a way to think clear and logical. Taking the bible or the quran literaly is for the insane and idiots. I feel that tendency is not happening with the 80 million fundamental Christians I mentioned. But that is also the case with millions of fundamental islamists around the world. In the case of islam it seems the lack of education in the rural areas. In the US most people are educated and certaintly not illiterate, also in the rural areas.

60. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting tway

Quoting Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ

Quoting t1way

There are religious fundamentalists everywhere.

I think that is not true. This issue is not known in Europe and also not in Australia. Religion is here not as important as in north-america. In south-European countries its more, but not much in politics....

Northern Ireland springs to mind - years of killings in the name of religion. Then there's the middle east. And Solar Temple in Switzerland. Extreme Catholicism in South America, even Spain.

Today I read in an article in Newsweek that churches need to get another destination in Europe. There are not enough people who actively go to church every week. In France less then 5% of Catholics regularly attends church on sunday; in the Czech republic its just 3%. This means that many churches need to get remodeled. For example as restaurant, pub, apartments or even as dance club. Madonna has performed in the Paradiso in Amsterdam, a long-established church turned into a club. This is necessary because its too expensive to keep empty churches. Some Churches get remodeled into mosques and Sikh temples. According to a forecast by the Britisch-based group Christian research, practicing muslims will outnumber practicing christians in England within a few decades.

This article is for me evidence that the church and so christianity doesn't has a lot of influence on the Europeans as it has in north-america. For anyone who wants a source; Newsweek, 12 February 2007, article "remodeling the churches" in the "society" section of Newsweek on page 50 to 53 by William Underhill.

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 7, 2007, at 6:41 AM by Wﺭﺍﺪﻤﺎﮐﺭ ]

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