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Terra Nullius in Australia

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31. Posted by Superwolf (Budding Member 25 posts) 9y

I don't believe that Aborigines know how to raise families but I don't believe their children should be taken away. I think if the government offered to pay for boarding school and trips home every few months for Aboriginal teenagers then a lot of problems would be solved. The current and previous generations of Aborigines don't know how to raise and care for children or support families (they haven't been able to since the "stolen generation"). Nor do they know how to spend money. I know a fair few schools offer free tuition for Aborigines but it needs to be more than just a few scholarships. I don't think there's any other way the problem can be solved.

By the way I'm pretty sure 90% of Australians are racist against Aborigines. They think they're a mess but they don't realise that it's not their fault. People literally talk about them as if they're animals. If the government did offer to pay for boarding school for Aborigines I'm sure many white people would have a bitch about it and complain that they have to pay for their children's education.

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 21, 2007, at 5:23 AM by Superwolf ]

32. Posted by Peter (Admin 5789 posts) 9y

Quoting Superwolf

By the way I'm pretty sure 90% of Australians are racist against Aborigines. They think they're a mess but they don't realise that it's not their fault. People literally talk about them as if they're animals.

You pretty much proved that yourself .. :(

33. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 9y

Quoting Peter

Quoting james

There are numerous languages so which one would you pick?

Of the 250'ish languages that existed when Australia was westernised, only about 20 are still considered strong enough to survive the next century. Picking a language to learn could easily be based on the availability of speakers in the area, particularly when you consider that Aboriginal communities often speak the languages of neighbouring communities as well.

Secondly, who's going to teach it? Some drunks bought in from the outback? Where's the pool of teachers who can speak it?

I'm not sure what to think of your implication that all aboriginals who know their native tongue are drunks, but I'll just have to assume you were exaggerating for effect. You seem happy to imply that there are no people in the Aboriginal community capable of teaching their language to others.

Yes, my comment about the "drunks" was perhaps not a good one, but one used for exaggerated affect. I was sort of highlighting that this is not too far from the real situation. You can't help but feel this way when you see this over and over.

Without doubt there are people in the aboriginal communities who can teach their language, but probably hardly any.

34. Posted by ikey (Full Member 172 posts) 9y

Quoting Superwolf

I don't believe that Aborigines know how to raise families

The problem is much greater than I imagined if this opinion is tolerated in Australia in the year 2007, I hope this is not the opinion of the majority...

35. Posted by dr.pepper (Travel Guru 316 posts) 9y

Quoting Superwolf

I don't believe that Aborigines know how to raise families but I don't believe their children should be taken away. I think if the government offered to pay for boarding school and trips home every few months for Aboriginal teenagers then a lot of problems would be solved.

Great idea! We can call it Stolen Generation 2.0!

p.s. Your name's not John Howard is it?

36. Posted by ikey (Full Member 172 posts) 9y

I've been reading this thread with interest every day since it was posted and I've been wanting to post a reply but really have no idea where to start. It is such a HUGE problem here in Australia and one that must to be rectified.

There are many problems facing this issue and whilst I have heard many ideas to help, a lot of them seem to create other problems:
Dry areas:
-Is this simply segregating some Aboriginal communities further and abusing their rights?
Sending the children to boarding school:
-Could this be the stolen generation of the 21st century?
Saying 'sorry':
-A token gesture that will not stop any problems, but if the Aboriginals need to hear it then why not give them what they want?
Learning an Aboriginal language:
-I would be surprised if any of the Aborginals I see at St Paul's in Melbourne can speak a native dialect, but any idea that means we learn more about the their (our) history is a good one.

Nobody knows the right answer but one thing for sure is that discussions, debates & forums like this one are the only way forward and I hope to read many other interseting idea's/views about the problem on this site.

37. Posted by kevandshan (Full Member 142 posts) 9y

The English started it all...
This whole problem was started by the British, and the way in which Australia was settled.

The British were keen to settle in Australia to keep ahead of the Russians, and the French, who were also seeking new territory.

The REAL problem is Imperial Law. Under UK law a country could be 'settled', or 'conquered'. Settled, being as history would have it the way in which the British settled in Australia. This means living with any current inhabitants.

To conquere the country would have seen most of the indigenous folk neutralized....done away with. So really, it is the British who made that choice. Indigenous people should be thankful that they 'settled' instead of 'conquering'. Also, if the Europeans didn't settle here, who do you think would have??? Asian countries....they definately would not be around today.

Having said this, it is unfortunate that indigenous Australians have suffered hardship. Taking children away (for example) is a terrible act. But it is not for a current govt., nor population to apologise for events that occurred beond our control. If they really wanted to help themselves they would assimilate into society, they way in which other indiginous people have done throughout the world.

I am only stating the law, and this is not my opinion. The settlers of this country created this problem. It is our fault that the indiginous are the way they are (not all of them). It is our fault that the country was settled??? There is no way that their culture could survive the 21st century. Someone would have conquered Australia, likely an Asian nation.

The best thing we can do is stop throwing money, new cars, houses at them and encourage them to work, learn, and assimilate into society.

38. Posted by HafJafMark (Respected Member 291 posts) 9y

How do you know that Aboriginal Australia would have been conquered by an Asian nation? They may have been able to forge a powerful nation of their own given time. After all the MAoris fought off the British and the French for a long time, why couldnt Aboriginal Australia fight off Indonesia?

I think you need to distingusih between 'integrate' and 'assimilate'. It would be a very sad thing if all Aboriginal culture was swallowed up by white Australians.

Whats the difference between Australians and a load of Fungus?

After 200 years Australians still wont grow any culture :)

39. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 9y

Quoting HafJafMark

How do you know that Aboriginal Australia would have been conquered by an Asian nation? They may have been able to forge a powerful nation of their own given time.

With due respect to both you and the aboriginals, how much time would they need; a few more thousand years???

After all the MAoris fought off the British and the French for a long time, why couldnt Aboriginal Australia fight off Indonesia?

Don't know what the population of Indonesia was 200 years ago, but I think it's something like 250 million now.....neeed I say more?

I think you need to distingusih between 'integrate' and 'assimilate'. It would be a very sad thing if all Aboriginal culture was swallowed up by white Australians.

Whats the difference between Australians and a load of Fungus?

After 200 years Australians still wont grow any culture :)

Nice one...

40. Posted by ikey (Full Member 172 posts) 9y

Quoting kevandshan

The English started it all...

Good one, let's just blame the English - we had nothing to do with it.

Quoting kevandshan

To conquere the country would have seen most of the indigenous folk neutralized....done away with. So really, it is the British who made that choice. Indigenous people should be thankful that they 'settled' instead of 'conquering'.

I'm sure the Aboriginals are so "thankful" they were conquered by the peace loving English who only massacred around 20,000 of them. (Professor Henry Reynolds' estimate).
To quote a wise Aboriginal elder: "What Europeans call settlement, Aboriginal people call invasion."

Quoting kevandshan

Having said this, it is unfortunate that indigenous Australians have suffered hardship. Taking children away (for example) is a terrible act....

I'm with you on that one, but you should have stopped there.

Quoting kevandshan

The best thing we can do is stop throwing money, new cars, houses at them and encourage them to work, learn, and assimilate into society.

What makes you think they would want to assimilate into white mans culture, do you like working 10 hours a day and seeing your family and friends if your lucky? I really couldn't blame them if the didn't want to be like me.