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Are borders stupid?

Travel Forums Off Topic Are borders stupid?

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11. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

But, if there were no borders, couldnt we just apply laws for respecting human rights, all over the world. Dictators would no longer be allowed to dominate people, within the borders of the country, they took over.

I meant that in some cases the border employer ask for "gifts'. that is the downside in a few African countries (especially if you travel by own transport)....

12. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

But, if there were no borders, couldnt we just apply laws for respecting human rights, all over the world. Dictators would no longer be allowed to dominate people, within the borders of the country, they took over.

Who's going to enforce them? And, how do you get already existing countries to give up their borders and come together? Everyone likes their little piece of power... (They are serious questions I asked. I'm not trying to be flippant, etc.) ;)

13. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

But, if there were no borders, couldnt we just apply laws for respecting human rights, all over the world. Dictators would no longer be allowed to dominate people, within the borders of the country, they took over.

How do you stop one great big dictator from rulling the world and disrespecting human rights ? Rightnow, if you don't like your leader, you can always go to another country where you're more or less protected by the borders.

14. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

But, if there were no borders, couldnt we just apply laws for respecting human rights, all over the world. Dictators would no longer be allowed to dominate people, within the borders of the country, they took over.

Sue! It would work perfectly in an ideal world. Unfortunately, millenium after millenium of war has taught us that countries won't be getting along together very soon. I understand your sentiment and applaud it, but it isn't practical. What dictator is going to say "oh, yes, you're absolutely right - sorry for all that tyranny". One world government would be lovely, but so long as human beings are unique and different cultures thrive, it just won't happen. Maybe that's even a good thing... ?

Quoting Mel.

But isnt that all changing anyway? I even cook recipes, from all over the world. And our clothes come from all over the world. And there are already lots and lots of immigrants living in our countries etc etc

Our goods may come from all over the world, but they too are subject to rigorous customs checks and taxes and so on. People can move from one country to another, but each country has criteria for citizenship - it's not so simple as picking a country you'd like to move to. Recipies...well..OK, I'm with you on recipes. ;)

15. Posted by Gelli (Travel Guru 2457 posts) 9y

Borders are entirely natural and not a human phenomena (think of animals marking their territories, which is approximately the same thing). Territorial markers will always be there in one form or another, even if they bear little or no resemblance to the current political borders.

What IS completely stupid are borders which have been decided my (mostly) Westerners on the other side of the world, either after wars or at some other point, and which are essentially arbitrary - and a compromise between the people sitting at the table. They bear no sense/relevance to the real world on the ground situation, which is generally somewhere which none of the people deciding have een visited, let alone spent much time.

16. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Isadora

Quoting Mel.

But, if there were no borders, couldnt we just apply laws for respecting human rights, all over the world. Dictators would no longer be allowed to dominate people, within the borders of the country, they took over.

Who's going to enforce them? And, how do you get already existing countries to give up their borders and come together? Everyone likes their little piece of power... (They are serious questions I asked. I'm not trying to be flippant, etc.) ;)

I think when education and free speech are available to all, then there wont be so much need to enforce human rights laws. These laws will make sense, to most people. Look at our countries. Our human rights situations are not perfect, but we have progressed so much, in the last couple of hundred years, because of the education and information available to us.
It takes a lot more force, to repress people, than it does to allow them their freedom and give them rights. Dictorship countries have huge armies, just to keep their own people repressed.

17. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Q'

Quoting Mel.

But, if there were no borders, couldnt we just apply laws for respecting human rights, all over the world. Dictators would no longer be allowed to dominate people, within the borders of the country, they took over.

How do you stop one great big dictator from rulling the world and disrespecting human rights ? Rightnow, if you don't like your leader, you can always go to another country where you're more or less protected by the borders.

When people are well educated, dictators dont stand a chance.
Often in countries where people are repressed by dictators, there is also heavy censorship. And in other areas of repression(women, races etc), depriving people of education has often been a tool, in keeping them repressed.

18. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting tway

Quoting Mel.

But, if there were no borders, couldnt we just apply laws for respecting human rights, all over the world. Dictators would no longer be allowed to dominate people, within the borders of the country, they took over.

Sue! It would work perfectly in an ideal world. Unfortunately, millenium after millenium of war has taught us that countries won't be getting along together very soon. I understand your sentiment and applaud it, but it isn't practical. What dictator is going to say "oh, yes, you're absolutely right - sorry for all that tyranny". One world government would be lovely, but so long as human beings are unique and different cultures thrive, it just won't happen. Maybe that's even a good thing... ?

But, it is starting to work in the European Union, already. We have not had a war here, for 60 years. And human rights are increasing in Turkey, becasue they want to join the EU, where certain violations of human rights are just not tolerated. We did not use any force, over Turkey, to bring about this improvement.

19. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting tway

Quoting Mel.

But isnt that all changing anyway? I even cook recipes, from all over the world. And our clothes come from all over the world. And there are already lots and lots of immigrants living in our countries etc etc

Our goods may come from all over the world, but they too are subject to rigorous customs checks and taxes and so on. People can move from one country to another, but each country has criteria for citizenship - it's not so simple as picking a country you'd like to move to. Recipies...well..OK, I'm with you on recipes. ;)

But, these rigorous customs checks and taxes and criteria for citiizenship are exactly what I am talking about, when I say we spend so much time and energy, on protecting our patch. Why dont we just get rid of all that?

20. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Utrecht

It's great to have different countries, different attitudes, different culture etc. etc.

But isnt that all changing anyway? I even cook recipes, from all over the world. And our clothes come from all over the world. And there are already lots and lots of immigrants living in our countries etc etc

But it should stay nice to cook foreign recipes, instead of world recipes wouldn't it?
I think I know what you mean by having no borders, to live in a perfect world where we all can share the same stuff. But doesn't that affect the fun of travelling too much?