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Are borders stupid?

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21. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Utrecht

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Utrecht

It's great to have different countries, different attitudes, different culture etc. etc.

But isnt that all changing anyway? I even cook recipes, from all over the world. And our clothes come from all over the world. And there are already lots and lots of immigrants living in our countries etc etc

But it should stay nice to cook foreign recipes, instead of world recipes wouldn't it?
I think I know what you mean by having no borders, to live in a perfect world where we all can share the same stuff. But doesn't that affect the fun of travelling too much?

We would not all have to do the same stuff. We could still have different clothes, food and ways to have fun. And places would still have different types of architecture and landscape. Just get rid of the the immigration rules and trading restrictions and all the stuff that does not really do anything good, but uses time, energy and money.

22. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

But, these rigorous customs checks and taxes and criteria for citiizenship are exactly what I am talking about, when I say we spend so much time and energy, on protecting our patch. Why dont we just get rid of all that?

Because the only way to get rid of that would be to trust everyone to do the right thing. And, sad to say, that will never, ever happen. I completely agree - it would be the perfect solution. But as long as there are human beings alive, there will be people trying to cheat and lie and take advantage of the system.

I agree with Michael, too. Travelling would be a lot less fun if everything became the same - same culture, same laws, even the same values. Would the world be better off if we became a great melting pot...?

23. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

When people are well educated, dictators dont stand a chance. Often in countries where people are repressed by dictators, there is also heavy censorship. And in other areas of repression(women, races etc), depriving people of education has often been a tool, in keeping them repressed.

Communist China produces more university grads than any other country in the world.

Communist Cuba produces some of the finest doctors in the world.

Pre-war Germany produced the likes of Einstein, Heisenberg, the inventor of the jet engine, and some of the finest minds in the world. Yet, Hitler was elected into office.

The USA has a wealthy, relatively well educated population, yet they re-elected G.W.Bush and his Iraqi policies.

I'm afraid I don't see any basis for your argument from the historical record of our civilization.

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 12, 2007, at 12:47 PM by Q' ]

24. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Utrecht

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Utrecht

It's great to have different countries, different attitudes, different culture etc. etc.

But isnt that all changing anyway? I even cook recipes, from all over the world. And our clothes come from all over the world. And there are already lots and lots of immigrants living in our countries etc etc

But it should stay nice to cook foreign recipes, instead of world recipes wouldn't it?
I think I know what you mean by having no borders, to live in a perfect world where we all can share the same stuff. But doesn't that affect the fun of travelling too much?

We would not all have to do the same stuff. We could still have different clothes, food and ways to have fun. And places would still have different types of architecture and landscape. Just get rid of the the immigration rules and trading restrictions and all the stuff that does not really do anything good, but uses time, energy and money.

But there could be some serious problems as a result. For example, trade of drugs over the world will be harder to control, because there are no borders. That means maybe more drug addicts to start with, so maybe more crime to have money to buy those drugs.

25. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting tway

[quote=Mel.]
Because the only way to get rid of that would be to trust everyone to do the right thing. And, sad to say, that will never, ever happen. I completely agree - it would be the perfect solution. But as long as there are human beings alive, there will be people trying to cheat and lie and take advantage of the system.

We white folk here in the first world, are pros at cheating and lying. We have striped others bare, and made laws to make sure we hold on to what we have gained. Now we want to hold onto our immigration laws, and our restricitions, so we wont have to share, with those we exploited.

Why are so many countires, in the third world so dirt poor, even though they can produce cash crops? Hard wood, coffee, tea, etc. We make sure that it is we who profit, and not them. Why dont we get rid or our restrictions, and allow them an equal opportunity.

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 12, 2007, at 1:14 PM by Mel. ]

26. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Q'

Quoting Mel.

When people are well educated, dictators dont stand a chance. Often in countries where people are repressed by dictators, there is also heavy censorship. And in other areas of repression(women, races etc), depriving people of education has often been a tool, in keeping them repressed.

Communist China produces more university grads than any other country in the world.

Communist Cuba produces some of the finest doctors in the world.

Pre-war Germany produced the likes of Einstein, Heisenberg, the inventor of the jet engine, and some of the finest minds in the world. Yet, Hitler was elected into office.

The USA has a wealthy, relatively well educated population, yet they re-elected G.W.Bush and his Iraqi policies.

I'm afraid I don't see any basis for your argument from the historical record of our civilization.

There is more to education, than university degrees.

27. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Utrecht

But there could be some serious problems as a result. For example, trade of drugs over the world will be harder to control, because there are no borders. That means maybe more drug addicts to start with, so maybe more crime to have money to buy those drugs.

I dont know, if there would be more drug addicts, or not. But I think drug addiction is caused by problems in society, and people having personal problems, rather than the availibility of drugs. I dont use any drugs, even when they are available.

28. Posted by beerman (Respected Member 1631 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

We white folk here in the first world, are pros at cheating and lying. We have striped others bare, and made laws to make sure we hold on to what we have gained. Now we want to hold onto our immigration laws, and our restricitions, so we wont have to share, with those we exploited.

Why are so many countires, in the third world so dirt poor, even though they can produce cash crops? Hard wood, coffee, tea, etc. We make sure that it is we who profit, and not them. Why dont we get rid or our restrictions, and allow them an equal opportunity.

You're kidding with these statements, aren't you? Do you honestly believe this rhetoric?

Could you be a tad more specific when you say "WE" white folk....I know quite a few white people who have never oppressed anyone.

And just for enlightenment sake, perhaps you could take into account that the ruling classes in many third world countries are exploiting their own people perfectly well without any assistance from the first world.

29. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Utrecht

But there could be some serious problems as a result. For example, trade of drugs over the world will be harder to control, because there are no borders. That means maybe more drug addicts to start with, so maybe more crime to have money to buy those drugs.

I dont know, if there would be more drug addicts, or not. But I think drug addiction is caused by problems in society, and people having personal problems, rather than the availibility of drugs. I dont use any drugs, even when they are available.

I guess this would be another discussion...maybe start another topic;) But honestly I think it would be a bigger problem than it is already. If sigarettes are banned from the regular (legal) selling points, less people would smoke.

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 12, 2007, at 1:30 PM by Utrecht ]

30. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting beerman

[Could you be a tad more specific when you say "WE" white folk....I know quite a few white people who have never oppressed anyone.

Your ancesters were not the first people to live in the US. Unless u have decended from the Native American Indians. White Americans would be part of we white folk. As far as I see, the Native Indians were not given a good price, for their land, and are still discriminated against, in the US today.

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 12, 2007, at 1:42 PM by Mel. ]