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21. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

The longest but probably one of the most interesting posts since a long time.
So you are from Holland...you know Jakob from Copenhagen....That's an old joke about the american everyone has met.

That dutch-belgiam border 'dispute' is really something strange isn't it. Sometimes, when I take a long lunch break during work, I drive over there, it's just about 20 minutes or so from breda. It's just so weird. A colleague of mine lives there...he's dutch;)

By the way, was looking at maps of Armenia etc. again. Nagorno Karabagh is not proparly on any map. Ok, it's not officially a country, but unofficially it should be part of Armenia right know. Azer doesn't have anything to say in practice righ know.

That transdnjestrie is pretty cool as well, a small cold war if you ask me. I took the train from Odessa to Chisinau several years back, and this was probably the strangest part of my train trip to e-europe. Kinda nomansland it felt. Is that smirnov guy still having power there? Reminds me of placebo vodka...;)

Actually, I have seen a couple of more strange borders in the atlas, which I haven't looked up what it exactly means. Between Egypt and Sudan, there seem to be two offical borders.
Also, suriname looks bigger in the atlas then when you withdraw it's disputed borders with guyana and french guyana.

Gelli...it sounds like it's your job...

22. Posted by Gelli (Travel Guru 2457 posts) 9y

Gelli...it sounds like it's your job...

I couldn't possibly comment

Rich, that's it? No more? I was hoping to read more, like continuing to the third post at least, if not more!

Sorry Hein. It's only mean't to be an extremely basic and short example to show that there are more borders disputed than generally thought of. It is in no way even vaguely comprehensive. I'd be more than happy to put down just the ones i know about in basic detail for you, although it would fill a good sized book or two. And If I was commissioned to write up all disputes in the world, properly and in full detail, I'd create enough books to fill something reasonably large. Like Luxembourg....

By the way, was looking at maps of Armenia etc. again. Nagorno Karabagh is not proparly on any map. Ok, it's not officially a country, but unofficially it should be part of Armenia right know. Azer doesn't have anything to say in practice righ know

I'd disagree on this one, although it's just a personal preference. In this case, despite it being legally Azeri (although they have no real involvement) i'm personally more inclined to count them as essentially independent rather than essentially part of Armenia, who deliberately don't try and claim it - common sense is a surprising thing to find in border disputes, so gair play to them - although they are very close. Having said that, as nobody officially recognises it, it's realatively easy for us, and is shown as either Azeri or disputed (but still Azeri). One reason behind my preference here (although use of passport stamps/Visas's isn't exactly a completely trustworthy way of decing national boundaries), is that despite the fact I had valid multi entry Azeri and Armenian visas's, I needed to get a specific NG visa in order to enter. And It was a Visa as opposed to a permit (of the type you need for Tibet, chunks of Russia etc)

Between Egypt and Sudan, there seem to be two offical borders.

This isn't unusual at all, and there are many places where there is basically a stretch of official no mans land (as opposed to legal no mans land) between the two borders. Most of the time it's for simple logistical reasons rather than any political dispute. You even get the opposite - an odd one is Yemen and Saudi which has no official boundary along most of it's legnth, and never has. The border is an entirely notional line (even on most modern atlases, it's just a dashed line) and has never been agreed on, but as it's inhospitable desert, doesn't really make much difference.

Actually, I have seen a couple of more strange borders in the atlas,

Believe me. There are lots and lots of these!

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 19, 2007, at 8:25 AM by Gelli ]

23. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

Gelli, just write the book, and i will buy it

By the way, did you get the visa of Nagorno in your pasport? I've heard you can not get into azer anymore if you have one.

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 19, 2007, at 12:18 PM by Utrecht ]

24. Posted by Gelli (Travel Guru 2457 posts) 9y

Gelli, just write the book, and i will buy it

Well, i'll need advance payment (to cover any expenses, and because i wouldn't be working for a while, you understand). Send me, say, 30,000 euro's (many other currencies, precious metals, and non consecutive bonds also accepted), and i'll get right on it

By the way, did you get the visa of Nagorno in your pasport? I've heard you can not get into azer anymore if you have one.

If you think about it logically, it doesn't actually matter (I'm assuming here that you are aware that I don't fly?).
I actually did get it in my passport, although it was several years ago, and I also have more than one passport. It wasn't actually entirely deliberate (long mostly boring story), but i had the visa's in different passports, and despite the impossibilitity of it they didn't seem bothered about the fact that i entered on a passport without stamps of where i'd just been, despite the fact that I HAD to have just been there. I remember being surprised that I had little trouble in either direction and was expecting worse. Will investigate current situation

[ Edit: Edited on Feb 20, 2007, at 10:04 AM by Gelli ]

25. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

That's an expensive book Gelli...I will try it myself

I know you don't fly, but the connection with the fact it doesn't matter I don't get to be honest....but that could be me

26. Posted by Ahila (Inactive 1529 posts) 9y

Quoting Utrecht

Gelli, just write the book, and i will buy it

Agree with Michael, I'd buy that book as well, once you wrote it and were selling at a normal book cost.. This thread is indeed interesting.

27. Posted by Gelli (Travel Guru 2457 posts) 9y

That's an expensive book Gelli...I will try it myself

Be my guest! I just don't have the time (or, in fairness, inclination - to write any book that is - at the moment). But if you want somebody to help with the proofing, feel free to send me a copy and i'll help. Publishing is no problem as well.

I know you don't fly, but the connection with the fact it doesn't matter I don't get to be honest....but that could be me

To go to NK I had to get the visa. Even if they let me go Az - NK without problem, because NK is completely landlocked by Azerbaijan, and without flying, the fact that I'm not still there means they must have let me into Az. Otherwise, I had no way of leaving NK....
[i]Having said that, under current rules, even with more than one passport - so you can show them one without the visa in it - it may not be possible at all, as it's fairly obvious where you've come from if you try crossing by land[i]

28. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

Ok, I was thinking about travelling through Armenia and Georgia back to Azer, the only was...well apart from Iran.

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