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Turkey and PKK Terror

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121. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting stuthkfl

By the way, you should know that today there are many Kurdish parliments and 3 ministers are being in Turkish Parliment. Even only this is enough to see if they have the same rights or not...

No, it is not enough, to show they have the same rights.
The Kurdish ministers careers would be damaged, if they are seen to fight too much, for Kurdish rights. They would be branded as unbalanced and would lose votes of people who are not Kurdish. A few token Kurds in the government is not enough, at all, to show that the Kurds have equal rights.

really?
how many parlimenter Turkish in Europe? should Turks use terror to send a parlimenter in the parliment?

122. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

Quoting stuthkfl

We're accepting deportation! ;)
Please see the difference between deportation and genocide clearly. Those Armenians who has deported were living in most problematic provinces and rebelling so often by England's instigations. You'll see many proves in that archives which shows that the government has cared them a lot by medically and logistically. However, because of the contagious diseases, winter conditions, many people have lost their lives. People who has died was not only the Armenians, many Turkish soldier, service member has died too.

On the other hand, same GENEration, was living in richness in Istanbul's most valuable places, offices. If it would be a genocide then the government of that time would start to their ethnic cleaning from the capital city huh?;)

My last words about this issue will be ended by saying "do you know what did happen in that time better than Katchaznouni who is the first prime minister of Armenia?" He's denying the genocide as well and describing the deportation as the best solution can be done by Ottoman government.
http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/1923Manifesto-FULLrecord.htm

Again you are telling only half the story:

These places where troublesome places for the Turkish government, the Armenians were perfectely happy living there. Making these deportations was a ludacris undertaking. By ordering these deportations, you make yourself responsable for these people, and you need to take care of them in all ways necessary. Clearly the Turkish government didn't do that is a sufficient way. You can argue that winter and disease, was the course of death for these people, fact is that if these people were not deported they wouldn't have died.

Your other point on starting ethnic cleaning(?) somewhere else, I only have to point to the Killing (not deporting!) most of the Armenian Elite in April 1915. (Where there are no Armenians left, you don't have to deport them). From other cities in Turkey there were also deportations to the camps in Syria.

And for everybody stating that there was no genocide, is always somebody else to find that states the opposite. The biggest problem is that a lot of prove is either lost or destroyed, and this case can only be proven by indirect evidence.

If those people hasn't rebelled, they wouldn't deported
Do the French or Dutch government solven their all problems and order came to make a law regulating two society' history with indirect evidence(!)??

look what I've found under my pillow, Algerian Genocide's indirect evidence! that's funny, genocide means that ethnic cleaning.. even they couldn't deported them carefully, you can't define it as genocide.

123. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

Quoting stuthkfl

anyway, I'm alone and I've tired enough. Especially Bert's ideas describing Terror is a kind of right seeking method.

Not in 95% of the of all cases (including this one), but in some cases I can understand that people are forced to use these methods.

In your view, you could say that when Bosnia decleared itself a state, they should not defend themselves when Yugoslavia (Serbia) started a policy to remove every mulsim from this area, and to keep Bosnia within the Federation. Instead you wanted them to demonstrate?

at the day Turkish soldiers bomb a open bazaar full of Kurdish civilians, like Serbians did on Bosnia, I'll find Turkey similar and guilty.

124. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting stuthkfl

The reason why they're asking to set up a state is not the lack of rights. I'm really sure that most of them will come to Turkey for work, even if they set up a new country. The reason is oil.!!

Northern Iraq and the south east Turkey is including the richest oil reserve that most of it even hasn't used yet and really important for western countries especially for US after the peak of oil production. That's why they're supporting Kurdistan wishing to get a percentage from that new country' petrol thanks to their support..

As far as I know, Turkey, including the area that the PKK know as Kurdistan is not rich in oil. In fact, I have never heard, of it having any oil, at all. If I am wrong, please provide an internet link, where I can read about it.

I doubt, that the US are supporting Kurdistan. Especially, since they are so keen to keep on friendly terms, with Turkey.;)

Oil production is less because of Turkey regret to British Oil companies applications. They'd use high technology to reach the deep sources, however, Turkey doesn't have the same technology to reach them. That's what government says, but the publics opinion is oil seeking is not supprted because of the secret agreements. Likewise thanks to Martial Help of US, our stupid politians has closed a plane factory in 50s!

Alhough that we have many oil wells in there... that's what I found

Although Turkey's energy resources remained underdeveloped in early 1995, the country had relatively good energy production potential. One estimate places the economically feasible hydroelectric potential at around 29,500 megawatts, which would allow annual production to reach roughly 100,000 gigawatt-hours in years with normal rainfall. Lignite is the second most important potential source of energy, with proven and probable deposits put around 6.4 billion tons. However, Turkish lignite, containing high amounts of water and sulfur, is hard to burn and pollutes the air. Turkey's proven and estimated petroleum stocks are equivalent to about three years' consumption. Proven reserves are estimated at about 16 million tons, and enhanced oil-recovery techniques may allow extraction of another 30 million tons. Proven reserves of natural gas total about 12.4 billion cubic meters, and reserves of hard coal about 1 billion tons. Turkey's geothermal resources are considerable, but they have not yet been systematically explored.

http://countrystudies.us/turkey/65.htm

Also you should know that Turkey's moreover Europe's biggest hydroelectricity santrals are being in that area! I highly recommend that to read this article... you'll see if Turkey has invested to that region or not..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Anatolia_Project

I couldn't find a map yet but this news, unfortunately in Turkish but youan check the numbers at least says that
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/328348.asp

It has opened 3 154 oil well and by the end of 2004, 861,019,532 barrel oil has produced.

If find a map I'll send.
And here you'll see a list of cities which gives oil. http://www.acikistihbarat.com/Haberler.asp?haber=6057

Also most of them the cities in Kurdistan area ;)

125. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting stuthkfl

The reason why they're asking to set up a state is not the lack of rights. I'm really sure that most of them will come to Turkey for work, even if they set up a new country. The reason is oil.!!

Northern Iraq and the south east Turkey is including the richest oil reserve that most of it even hasn't used yet and really important for western countries especially for US after the peak of oil production. That's why they're supporting Kurdistan wishing to get a percentage from that new country' petrol thanks to their support..

As far as I know, Turkey, including the area that the PKK know as Kurdistan is not rich in oil. In fact, I have never heard, of it having any oil, at all. If I am wrong, please provide an internet link, where I can read about it.

I doubt, that the US are supporting Kurdistan. Especially, since they are so keen to keep on friendly terms, with Turkey.;)

Oh since we had declined the base request of US in south east Turkey for Iraq war in 1 March 2003, and Kurds had given a wide support in Northern Iraq, they're supporting Kurds against Turkey. ;)

126. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting stuthkfl

[
While they're claiming Turkey is not a part of EU by geographically, allowing Cyprus; while asking for economy, allowing Bulgaria and Romania was fairly enough events which made Turkish people anti-European.

I dont think the EU has much interest in Cyprus, Turkish, Greek political situation, as long as there is peace. The problem is, that if Turkey do not make peace, with Greece, this will also remain a barrier to them joining the EU. I think it is important that the EU economy is based on peace, and a high standard of human rights. Greece is a member of the EU, and if Turkey is also to become a member, it must make peace with Greece. ;)

It is a similiar situation with Serbia. If they do not remain peaceful, this will be a barrier to their becomming members of the EU also.;)

just have a look to the chronological orders of the events on cyprus, Turkey is always seeking peace.. we had accepted UN's plan, we had voted for unifying in Cyprus, they didn't want..

are they waiting a gift from us? moreover, many EU parliments are accepting the entry of Cyprus was a fault. but it's a pretty good card to play against Turkey..
hmm if you don't do this, I'll have a look to your Cyprus issue a bit this year... ;)

127. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting stuthkfl

Indeed since last 2 years, nobody wants to join EU in Turkey who are aware of the political facts.

Well, joining the EU is not compulsary. If this is true, then the EU will likely accept the decision, if the Turkish government let them know.;)

I hope, if we can select a independent and honest government in this elections!!

128. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

Although there is oil to be found in Turkish Kudistan

south east Turkey ;)

129. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

Quoting Mel.

Quoting stuthkfl

[
While they're claiming Turkey is not a part of EU by geographically, allowing Cyprus; while asking for economy, allowing Bulgaria and Romania was fairly enough events which made Turkish people anti-European.

I dont think the EU has much interest in Cyprus, Turkish, Greek political situation, as long as there is peace. The problem is, that if Turkey do not make peace, with Greece, this will also remain a barrier to them joining the EU. I think it is important that the EU economy is based on peace, and a high standard of human rights. Greece is a member of the EU, and if Turkey is also to become a member, it must make peace with Greece. ;)

It is a similiar situation with Serbia. If they do not remain peaceful, this will be a barrier to their becomming members of the EU also.;)

The problem is not Greece, Cyprus is an indepent state, and a member of the EU. Turkey doesn't recognice the indepence of the "greek" part of Cyprus, and therefor doesn't recognise one of the members of the EU, whilst it wants to be part of the same organisation.

does greek part recognizing north turkish part? however they applied for all cyprus, not only greek part... then why eu doesn't recognize that north turkish part?

130. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting stuthkfl

Muhammed cartoons make me sad as well. Critisizing something is a freedom of course, but describing someone, especially a religious leader as terrorist or homosexual or sth different can't be named freedom.

It is not necessarily OK, to do absolutely anything, in the name of freedom. If something offends people, they can complain, and if enough people complain, then the item is removed. If enough people complained, about this cartoon(in a non violent way, of course), then it would be removed, and not allowed again. There is a fine line between freedom of speech and hate mongering or freedom and indecency etc.;)

sure I'm totally agree with you, for example Kurds should complain without violence :)