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Turkey and PKK Terror

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31. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

Mel I think you misunderstand the subject ;) ROJ TV is broadcasting from Denmark. However, people mostly watch it from south east Turkey on their satellite TVs. They're not just infroming people, they're giving bank numbers under the name of "help for Kurdish People which has injured during the war!". Which war? The war that they've talked about is Turkish Security Forces' operations to camps in mountains!

They're announcing meetings against government which get into riots everytime! That's one of the reasons which makes them away from Ankara.

So, u think that because a programme is broadcast, from Denmark, and picked up on satalite TV, in Turkey, that this means that Europe is supporting the PKK terrorist organisation?
And, I dont know either which war they refer to, unless u tell me which one they named. But they did not say they are collecting money, for the PKK, on that programme, did they?

One reason, why Turkey has not been accepted, into the European Union yet is because the Turkish government is not considered to be doing enough to control the terrorists, in Turkey.

If these meetings turn into riots, in Ankara, then an adequate police force should be made available, to control them.;)

32. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

If you think is slander than file a lawsuit. That has been done in the past by others, and they lost all of them, as judges have always ruled, that this is part of the freedom of speech.

That it is a tradition not to use pictures of the prophet in Muslim cultures, does not mean, that the same has to apply to other people in other countries/cultures. All countries have a different set of values, laid down in the law. Danish law, differs from Turkish law, and US law, will differ from Indonesian Law. You can not expect Danish people (like the ones who drew the cartoons) to live by Turkish laws. If something is tolerated in one country, other countries/people will have to respect that.

33. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting stuthkfl

Mel I think you misunderstand the subject ;) ROJ TV is broadcasting from Denmark. However, people mostly watch it from south east Turkey on their satellite TVs. They're not just infroming people, they're giving bank numbers under the name of "help for Kurdish People which has injured during the war!". Which war? The war that they've talked about is Turkish Security Forces' operations to camps in mountains!

They're announcing meetings against government which get into riots everytime! That's one of the reasons which makes them away from Ankara.

So, u think that because a programme is broadcast, from Denmark, and picked up on satalite TV, in Turkey, that this means that Europe is supporting the PKK terrorist organisation?
And, I dont know either which war they refer to, unless u tell me which one they named. But they did not say they are collecting money, for the PKK, on that programme, did they?

One reason, why Turkey has not been accepted, into the European Union yet is because the Turkish government is not considered to be doing enough to control the terrorists, in Turkey.

If these meetings turn into riots, in Ankara, then an adequate police force should be made available, to control them.;)

Denmark is supporting PKK from an indirect way, allowing ROJ TV. Not only one programme, nearly all programmes and news and discussions on ROJ TV is on this subject. It's a special channel which is organizing PKK and PEJOK (Iranian Version of PKK) terrorists (according to them gerillas)

Because they call them gerillas, they use war word instead of terrorism to describe how they fight against Turkey. Yes, they're asking money under the name of supplying healthcare costs of Kurdish people who has injured in operations maded by Turkish Soldiers.

In a couple of years ago, Police has a great authorization for riots and none of them could make riots in cities. However, after EU regulation laws, managing riots become really hard for us because of the limited authority of police forces. That's another reason why we don't want to join EU and regulate our security laws according to the countries which has no traffic crimes even!

Perhaps after elections in this year, government will be changed and I don't think that Turkey will go on EU's way anymore. Since last 2 years everybody is asking for China Russia India block. They've invited Brasil and Turkey while they're settling up.

34. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

There is such a fine line between a freedom fighter and a terrorists. What a terrorist is for one side, is a freedom fighter for somebody else. In principle they are forced to used the same methods, so the way they fight there battle (good, or bad) is not the way to tell them apart.

As I told you before, I just don't know enough on the origins of this situation to be able to make a call on the PKK. But from what I understand out of your words is, that the PKK is doing the Kurds, and what they want more harm than good.

You can make a long list of organisations, that can be labeled freedom fighters at one side, and terrorists on the side of the opponents. (ETA, IRA, ANC, LTTE), and then we are not even talking about countries invading other countries. Russia -> Afghanistan, China -> Tibet, USA -> Panama, Iraq, Vietnam (where they took over from the French), Morocco -> Western Sahara. It is really easy to make up your mind on a lot of these, but I wonder how many people, will really know all the facts they need to know, and would still not be able to tell them apart.

35. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

If you think is slander than file a lawsuit. That has been done in the past by others, and they lost all of them, as judges have always ruled, that this is part of the freedom of speech.

Should I file for every news which can't be prooven? or is it their responsibility to publish it with sources; showing that "yes Muhammed was a terrorist, because of this, this and that"

That it is a tradition not to use pictures of the prophet in Muslim cultures, does not mean, that the same has to apply to other people in other countries/cultures. All countries have a different set of values, laid down in the law. Danish law, differs from Turkish law, and US law, will differ from Indonesian Law. You can not expect Danish people (like the ones who drew the cartoons) to live by Turkish laws. If something is tolerated in one country, other countries/people will have to respect that.

Then how they're questioning Turkey's laws like death penalty, article 301 etc.? Danish laws are for Danish citizens, if they're start to discuss an international person, they should take all people' values into consideration.

Can Turkey create a Turkish law, which allows Hamas, Al Quade to broadcast from Turkey, to be trained in my lands; would it be still ok to say, "well this is Turkish Laws dear western brothers, like it or not, I'm supporting these people because I see them as freedom gerillas!" ?

If laws are different, then opinions, reflections are different as well... Maybe people who has threat them by calliing are pretty well with their countries religious laws?

36. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

You can make a long list of organisations, that can be labeled freedom fighters at one side, and terrorists on the side of the opponents. (ETA, IRA, ANC, LTTE), and then we are not even talking about countries invading other countries. Russia -> Afghanistan, China -> Tibet, USA -> Panama, Iraq, Vietnam (where they took over from the French), Morocco -> Western Sahara. It is really easy to make up your mind on a lot of these, but I wonder how many people, will really know all the facts they need to know, and would still not be able to tell them apart.

That's pretty good, so instead of origins, let we see the results...

If Kurdistan can be settled up, it will become the 2nd Israil of the Middle East and blood will never end in there.

The war is not people's war. War or terrorism or every conflict on the world is the rant of Gun Sellers. If US can keep more than 310 billion $ for it's army every year, it exactly means that US should attack somewhere for some reason. Or a country should be attracted to another! Or a ethnicity, or a religional part... Or whatever... What is US doing in Iraq now? Are they in there for oil or to use more guns...? Why Saddam has fight against Iran for years...

Why Cold War has happened? Did they really hate each other? Or was it just a reason to spend more for armies...

Armies has developed, gun sellers made a lot of money, profits of fear sector has peaked; new improvements in armies and fear sector has been used in communication, medicine, or on other industries... and big economies have been grown. ;)

37. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

stuthkfl, you are describing EU-beaurocracy, we have to deal with that all the time

You are absolutely right that the EU, should not make there rules for Turkey (or any other member) behind their desks in Brussels. (what do you mean with no traffic crimes?) But there are a couple of things that still need to be solved. It would be rediculous, to start negotiations with a country that is not recognizing one of the other members

Personaly I would like it if Turkey would join the EU, and if you listen to a lot of reports in the papers, it might not look like it that people in the EU would want Turkey to join. Unfortenately the people who are getting all the attention in the newspapers, and on TV, are the ones that are shouting the loudest, and in general have no idea, what progress Turkey has made in the last 30 years. In my opinion Turkey is much more developed that a country like Bulgaria, that joined recently, but somehow people here don't (want to) see that. I would really think it is a shame, if Turkey would quit their attempt to become a member.

38. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

Should I file for every news which can't be prooven? or is it their responsibility to publish it with sources; showing that "yes Muhammed was a terrorist, because of this, this and that"I

I know the issue about media. Its partly true. But to say what you are saying is the most weird thing. Then you can't believe anything and anyone anymore. Kind of funny I find it.

39. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

It would be rediculous, to start negotiations with a country that is not recognizing one of the other members

It was EU's fault to get a new country without unifyed. I can say that both of us were a candidate before... Then why did they allow us to become a candidate while half of the other candidate's, Cyprus' land is under occupation of us?

Turkey and the Northern Cyprus are always supporting the unification under United Nations' plan. Greeks didn't want to get unfied. Although that how can they still blaming Turkish part?

Mel is talking about, without solving the problems, controlling the terrorists, it's impossible to join to EU for Turkey. Didn't it current for Cyprus? Without solving it's problems? From the middle of mediterranean sea?

That's the double standart, and the point where EU has failed on Turkish People's eyes.

[ Edit: Edited on Mar 19, 2007, at 3:07 PM by stuthkfl ]

40. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

Should I file for every news which can't be prooven? or is it their responsibility to publish it with sources; showing that "yes Muhammed was a terrorist, because of this, this and that"
[quote]

If we are talking about the same cartoons, you need to see them in the right context. As I believe you have seen the cartoons, for example let us, the cartoon where Mohamed is shown with a burning fuse. The people who made the drawing are not at all wanting to get the picture across that Muhamed was a terrorists, but they use Muhamed to give Islam a face (as a symbol). The burning fuse indicates, that there are tentions in the Muslimworld, and some of these tentions are end up in muslims turning into radicals (terrorists). What the makers wanted to say is that some movements within Islam are like a bomb, that can go off any minute. (I wouldn't even be surprised if they really are pointing their finger, at 2nd/3rd generation muslims in Europe, of which is known that a small number of them are attracting radical thoughts, and are not walking away turning those thoughts into action.)

[quote]Then how they're questioning Turkey's laws like death penalty, article 301 etc.? Danish laws are for Danish citizens, if they're start to discuss an international person, they should take all people' values into consideration.

Can Turkey create a Turkish law, which allows Hamas, Al Quade to broadcast from Turkey, to be trained in my lands; would it be still ok to say, "well this is Turkish Laws dear western brothers, like it or not, I'm supporting these people because I see them as freedom gerillas!" ?

If laws are different, then opinions, reflections are different as well... Maybe people who has threat them by calliing are pretty well with their countries religious laws?

You can always try to make somebody chance their mind on subjects. If it is done on a normal diplomatic way, I can't see what is wrong with that. In the end it will be up to Turkey to take into consideration, and to make it's own decision.

The Death penalty issue, you are talking about is that in the EU negotiations? If the EU has a rule, that none of the members have the death penalty as a punishment, then in order to become one of the members, it is expected that new members will accept these laws.

Of course Turkey can make a law for allowing Hamas or Al Quada to make broadcasts in Turkey, why not? But it should not be surprised if some countries wouldn't like it, and would respond in a way. I don't believe that would be a military response, but you could expect, that negotions with the EU would be cancelled completely, US firms would not be allowed to do business with Turkey, something like that.

I don't get your last remark. As those people are making threats to people in another country, with other values/laws, of course that doesn't make it alright. I also think Turkish law, doesn't allow you to make deaththreats in Turkey as well.

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