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Turkey and PKK Terror

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51. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Utrecht

Maybe the other side of the story should be enlightned as well!
And personally I think, apart from PKK, there are some aspects in Turkish society/politics which are not so well either.

Yes, we all know how to google, so we can read this information, if we want. But I think Stuthkfi wants to discuss the PKK and if the EU is helping them. ;)

52. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 9y

Quoting james

I like roast Turkey.

with some nice ocalan sauce hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

53. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Utrecht

Maybe the other side of the story should be enlightned as well!
And personally I think, apart from PKK, there are some aspects in Turkish society/politics which are not so well either.

Yes, we all know how to google, so we can read this information, if we want. But I think Stuthkfi wants to discuss the PKK and if the EU is helping them. ;)

So you don't think there are any relations in this Mel? Maybe not the armenian genocide thing or whatever specific reason, but maybe indeed the way turkish government or society deals with other peoples like the Kurdish? It's not to defend them, but there are always two sides of story in every case!

You reaction is a bit arrogant, and with always putting the ;) after every sentence doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. I can google PKK and help Europe as well. So show some respect to what others than you, stut or the two dutch chaps have to say please!
Also if it doesn't fit the discussion the way you like

[ Edit: Edited on Mar 20, 2007, at 5:29 AM by Utrecht ]

54. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5596 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

I like roast Turkey.

you kiwi! shut up!

James is from Oz

55. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

However, today, Belgium and France don'T want to give some terrorists really important for Turkey who has been catched in that countries. Due to that, Turkey can't question them and get relevant information to fight against terror.

This may be because of concern from the EU, about the methods the Turkish authorities may use, to extract the information from the terrorists, who were captured.
It has been reported, by various human rights organisations, that Turkish authorities violate the human rights of Kurdish people. If Belgium and France hand over these prisoners, to a country, where their human rights stand a high possibility of being violated, then Belgium and France would be guilty of violating human rights codes.
;)

56. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

US is thinking that it's ok to come from thousands miles away and give freedom(!) to Iraq but it's indecent to keep it's own security from PKK for Turkey.

Do u believe, that the US wanted, to free the Iraqi people, or that they are interested, in behaving decently?

57. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

As you know, terrorism had been used by many countries in the past against another. However it's time to say stop to them! Because if we don't say it today, tomorrow they'll certainly become more powerful than their supporters and gun will turn back in anyway.

I think most people would like them to be stopped, but how?
But, I doubt that they will become more powerful. As violence becomes a less and less acceptable solution to problems, in society, they will have fewer and fewer supporters.

But, I think the government of Turkey, could help, by allowing Kurdish people their rights. This will reduce some of the dissatisfaction. Afterall, most of them vote for the mainstream Turkish political parties, and so certainly see themselves as citizens, of Turkey.;)

58. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

In Holland, Turkish candidates couldn't join to the elections just because they're supporting the Turkish Thesis. One of my article has deleted from a French Journalism Forum last week only because of it describes genocide as alleged. Those countries should first question their freedom of speech before Turkey.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to lie. The EU believes that there is enough proof, that the genocide took place. Denying it would be the equivalent of denying that the Holocost took place.

And saying there was no problem existing, between the Turkish government and the Kurdish people, before the PKK, is like saying that there was no problem between women and the governments here in Europe, before the feminist movement emerged, or that Irish people were happy to be ruled, by the British, before the rebels formed a group to aggitate etc etc etc. Do u really think there is no problem, when people are being suppressed?;)

59. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

But, I think the government of Turkey, could help, by allowing Kurdish people their rights. This will reduce some of the dissatisfaction. Afterall, most of them vote for the mainstream Turkish political parties, and so certainly see themselves as citizens, of Turkey

they've all same rights with anybody which has Turkish ID. and it's nearly impossible to realize someone is Kurdish without he say.

If you search what is Kurdistan on youtube, wiki, or any google.. you'll see that the right that they ask for is freedom; an independent country, nothing else! they're pretty aware that the land that thy ask for is being on a oil ocean

But, I doubt that they will become more powerful. As violence becomes a less and less acceptable solution to problems, in society, they will have fewer and fewer supporters.

They'll certainly become more powerful... the 1st reason is policies usually depend on the governments not to the public. it's been proven, (everyday we're reading another American Soldier is meeting up with PKK leaders in Northern Iraq) that US is supporting PKK secretly. However it doesn't mean that Americans are supporting PKK.

the 2nd reason is, some countries like Denmark is consisting on to see the reason as lack of freedom; and prefer to questioning Turkey instead of taking necessary steps to cut the PKK's nutrition vessels beginning from today. I'm pretty sure that they will be more brutal against terrorism than us, if they meet one day.

the criteria of EU is called Copenhagen Criteria in Turkey. And Police Brutality was one of the biggest issue which EU criticize Turkey on it. However, the first riot of Copenhagen, ungdomshuset riots has shown that; Danish Police has used much much more brutality against protestors than the Turkish Police had used against PKK sympathizers.

Do u believe, that the US wanted, to free the Iraqi people, or that they are interested, in behaving decently?

of course I'm not believing! it was pretty applicable to defeat Saddam by an assassination or sending a few prostitute to his hotel room and giving the hidden cam records to Al Jazeere

This may be because of concern from the EU, about the methods the Turkish authorities may use, to extract the information from the terrorists, who were captured.
It has been reported, by various human rights organisations, that Turkish authorities violate the human rights of Kurdish people. If Belgium and France hand over these prisoners, to a country, where their human rights stand a high possibility of being violated, then Belgium and France would be guilty of violating human rights codes.

torture has ended after the military coup at 80s. death penalty hasn't used since that time too as far as I know.
and the courts of these kind of important cases are always open to public and includes many EU observers.

do you think that the reason of not having any infringement of human rights in EU, especially in small rich countries, is it because their care to consider human rights in every small case or because of mostly CIA can be taken out every suspect which is in preparation of a terrorist attack against a European metropolis; and can be questioned them in Abu Guraib or in Guantanamo for its European brothers? ;) or maybe its plane in Schiphol?

60. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to lie. The EU believes that there is enough proof, that the genocide took place. Denying it would be the equivalent of denying that the Holocost took place.

well what will they do then? will they arrest the Turkish President as well? even you're asking for Kurdish people's opinions don't you? how did they become sure without holding a conference asking what Turkish thesis are saying? then let's we put a law which is saying France has did a genocide against Algeria; and put all the French People living in Turkey in jail because of their ideas!

how can you define it as "lie"? how much did you searched it before describing all Turkish people supporting their own thesis? if Armenia is sure about their thesis has enough proof, why they're not attending Turkish Historian's invitations for History conferences?

why Armenia's archives are still closed while Ottoman archives are widely open and online!
http://www.devletarsivleri.gov.tr/kitap/
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/eng/ermeni_sorunu_salonu/armenianissues_index.htm

can asking for a couple of city as a remedies be the reason of it?

today US is threating Turkey we may accept the same law which is forced by Armenian Lobby in washington IF we close to Incirlik Airbase to them! how can you define something which is negociated politically as a fact?

If you wonder turkish thesis you can have a look to here before claim it's lie! http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/intro/index.html

And saying there was no problem existing, between the Turkish government and the Kurdish people, before the PKK, is like saying that there was no problem between women and the governments here in Europe, before the feminist movement emerged, or that Irish people were happy to be ruled, by the British, before the rebels formed a group to aggitate etc etc etc. Do u really think there is no problem, when people are being suppressed?

if none of the Kurdish people hasn't supported PKK and asked their rights in democratic ways; could it be possible to get overreaction from Turkish people although not all of them supporting it?

there had been many problems occured in Turkey since the beggining of the Republic. However, modern people has asked their rights using social organizations, political parties; using their votes!

not killing their own teachers or doctors!

[ Edit: Edited on Mar 20, 2007, at 8:55 AM by stuthkfl ]

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