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Turkey and PKK Terror

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61. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

stuthkfl,

Don't just tell one side of the story.

As you also should now, there has been a joint Turkish/Armenian investigation into this matter, of which all Turkish members stept down from the commitee, that was doing the investigation.

There has been a conference in Istanbul in September of 2005, after a Turkish court had forbidden this conference. Why was this meeting forbidden by Turkish courts in the beginning?

You can call it Genocide or something else but the fact remains, that a lot of Armenians have died. One thing that makes it clear in my eyes that it is genocide is, that there is no way, that you can deport hundreds of thousands of people from Turkey and Armenia to Syria, where also approx. 25 camps were built to lock them up. That kind of an effort, is not possible without cooperation from the Government.

You should also tell us that the founder of Turkey, already spoke with disgrace about the murdering and deportation about the Armenians in the 1920's.

When quoting on the Copenhagen criteria, then qoute them in the correct way. These criteria leave enough room for the police to uphold the law. Your comparison to the riots in Copenhagen are a complete mistery to me.

To join the EU, a new Member State must meet three criteria:

political: stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;

economic: existence of a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union;

acceptance of the Community acquis: ability to take on the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.
For the European Council to decide to open negotiations, the political criterion must be satisfied*.

  • www.europe.eu

[ Edit: Edited on Mar 20, 2007, at 11:54 AM by Herr Bert ]

62. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Utrecht

Maybe they are terrorists, but this thread is basically some negative information about the PKK, not considering the aspects which have triggered PKK.

The motivations of the PKK are beside the point. Terrorism is not an acceptable solution, to the problems. At least not to most people, in modern society.;)

Mel, just one question

If you can't see any other way out, and government is not willing to discuss your wishes, as you are just a minority, could fighting be the way to have your voice heared, and to ultimately be the only way to get the government to talk with you, and to take you serious.

I mean, without IRA/SinnFein, would the Catholics in Northern Ireland have been taken seriously. Another example: Tibet didn't fight, and see what is left of their culture and country.

63. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

If you can't see any other way out, and government is not willing to discuss your wishes, as you are just a minority, could fighting be the way to have your voice heard, and to ultimately be the only way to get the government to talk with you, and to take you serious.

so from this aspect, all of the terrorists doing the right thing! Mr. Bert, Turkey is a democratic country. They can surely set up a social party which hasn't got any connection with PKK and vote for it. As I said, there're a lot of Kurdish parliaments are being in the current Parliament as well! Moreover, 3 of them Minister! how do you think that there weren't any other solution left?

Many people have lots of problems in Turkey but not whole of them fighting against government to solve it. Terror can't bring solution in anyway! you can built a new country with 300 billion $ which had been spent to terror.

There has been a conference in Istanbul in September of 2005, after a Turkish court had forbidden this conference. Why was this meeting forbidden by Turkish courts in the beginning?

I don't know why, I should read the judge's decision reasons but I think, if they can arrange a new meeting in Bilgi University only a few days after, restriction for previous meeting has sourced from something else rather than laws regulating freedom of speech.

you should also tell us that the founder of Turkey, already spoke with disgrace about the murdering and deportation about the Armenians in the 1920's.

We're accepting deportation! ;)
Please see the difference between deportation and genocide clearly. Those Armenians who has deported were living in most problematic provinces and rebelling so often by England's instigations. You'll see many proves in that archives which shows that the government has cared them a lot by medically and logistically. However, because of the contagious diseases, winter conditions, many people have lost their lives. People who has died was not only the Armenians, many Turkish soldier, service member has died too.

On the other hand, same GENEration, was living in richness in Istanbul's most valuable places, offices. If it would be a genocide then the government of that time would start to their ethnic cleaning from the capital city huh?;)

My last words about this issue will be ended by saying "do you know what did happen in that time better than Katchaznouni who is the first prime minister of Armenia?" He's denying the genocide as well and describing the deportation as the best solution can be done by Ottoman government.
http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/1923Manifesto-FULLrecord.htm

Your comparison to the riots in Copenhagen are a complete mistery to me.

Here's what I mean, Police Brutality in Europe:
http://www.wowturkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=418157

Only the half of this brutality is marked by unacceptable in EU improvement report for Turkey's candidateship when Turkish Police get overreacted.

[ Edit: Edited on Mar 20, 2007, at 1:08 PM by stuthkfl ]

64. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

For Kurdish people, we've opened Kurdish language schools, nobody went there! We've started Kurdish Broadcasting, nobody watched it. They have wanted those and complaning lack of rights before. Then why they didn't interested with their rights?

I think, parents may have worried, that if they sent their children, to the Kurdish language schools, then their children would not get the same opportunities, that people educated in a Turkish school would get.

Why did they not want to watch the Kurdish language broadcasts? Maybe, they would find them more interesting, if they were allowed, to broadcast what they want, instead of having topics, which are of no interest to them, broadcasted for them. ;)

65. Posted by stuthkfl (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

Why did they not want to watch the Kurdish language broadcasts? Maybe, they would find them more interesting, if they were allowed, to broadcast what they want, instead of having topics, which are of no interest to them, broadcasted for them.

you're coming closer to my point that I'm trying to show you since the beginning!!! because they are not asking for rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they're asking for Kurdistan!!!! since the beginning, even from the speech of declaration of PKK.

anyway, I'm alone and I've tired enough. Especially Bert's ideas describing Terror is a kind of right seeking method.

you can't understand the "weird" people who has suffered from terror in anyway without one of these children lying on your cities' streets.

http://www.geocities.com/t_volunteer/pkk/index.htm click to PKK MASSACRES.

I'm taking a long break!!! at least for 1 week!
it'll probably give you enough time to read my resources, unless mod edit the links please mod, if you edit it put some keywords to help them finding the page on google

cheers

[ Edit: Edited on Mar 20, 2007, at 1:34 PM by stuthkfl ]

66. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

[They have exactly the same rights with other people in Turkey.

Officially, but what is the reality?;)

67. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5595 posts) 9y

Stuthkfl,
You say Turkey is a democracy, maybe that is the case on paper, but lately there have been some serious incidents (not involving armenians or kurdish people alone, also turkish people) where things have been said that are claimed to be 'against the turkish state' but in fact they were not. They were just healthy critics from some people with influence. In fact, what we see in the media (and there must be some value in that) is Turkey not being a pure democracy, but rahter having some really strange laws, and nothing can be said by anyone about it.

And Herr Bert is nothing trying to defend terrorism, just like me he is asking the question for himself if there is another side of the story.
In a simplified version: if a person commits a crime on a certain age, there can be circumstances in his youth that 'explain' (but not mean it's allowed..big difference!) this crime.

68. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

And needless to say, they've killed many Kurdish people, they've burned many Kurdish Village as well!

Well, u certainly dont have to persuade me, that what terrorists do is wrong. I believe it, already.;)

69. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

This riot was because of ROJ TV has announced a car bombing in that region has done by Turkish Intelligence Service.

I think it is likely, that the cause of the riot was more than just the TV broadcase. ;)

70. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

In that video you will see the beguiled Kurdish people in a terrorist's funeral.

Are u making this judgement, based soley on your own interpretation of this video?;)

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