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Turkey and PKK Terror

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71. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

I'm aware that it's how hard to understand even for us, and more complicated for you I guess.

Why would it be more complicated for us?
We get plenty of news and information, over here, so are capable of quite a lot of understanding.;)

72. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

You say there is no way to see/hear who is Turkish and who is Kurdish.

And if it cant be seen or heard, maybe they are trying to avoid it being seen or heard. I wonder why. I suspect, it would be to escape the discrimination, they would suffer, if they were known to be Kurd.
That reminds me, of something. I once heard of a girl, who disguised herself, as a boy, to avoid sexual harassment, while she was traveling in South America. I think she prefers to look like and express herself, as a woman, but in other circumstances.

73. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

As you say, them setting up a legal political (?) party, would be a step the PKK could take in order to be taken more serious.

Is the PKK political party not legal, Herr Bert?
When the IRA were still in action, in Ireland, they had a legal political party.;)

74. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

On the part of Dutch/Turkish candidates not being able to participate in the elections, you have to notice, that it was the decision of the parties, to remove those candidates from the list. It has nothing to do freedom speech. It is not forbidden by law to have a different view on this, but some political parties will not allow members to have a different view on this case.

I suppose that makes sense. A political party is its politics, and beliefs. ;)

75. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

You know, when they come to the villages from mountains, they're asking from those people food, clothes etc. So it was important to take the control on them. Problems starting with PKK.

I dont think the fact, that they ask people for food, clothes etc is necessarily a problem. But, I presume they dont take no, for an answer, and that would certainly be a problem. ;)

76. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

By the way, you should know that today there are many Kurdish parliments and 3 ministers are being in Turkish Parliment. Even only this is enough to see if they have the same rights or not...

No, it is not enough, to show they have the same rights.
The Kurdish ministers careers would be damaged, if they are seen to fight too much, for Kurdish rights. They would be branded as unbalanced and would lose votes of people who are not Kurdish. A few token Kurds in the government is not enough, at all, to show that the Kurds have equal rights.

77. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

If you can't see any other way out, and government is not willing to discuss your wishes, as you are just a minority, could fighting be the way to have your voice heard, and to ultimately be the only way to get the government to talk with you, and to take you serious.

so from this aspect, all of the terrorists doing the right thing! Mr. Bert, Turkey is a democratic country. They can surely set up a social party which hasn't got any connection with PKK and vote for it. As I said, there're a lot of Kurdish parliaments are being in the current Parliament as well! Moreover, 3 of them Minister! how do you think that there weren't any other solution left?

I didn't find the time over the last few days to respond, but I have a little bit of time.

The question I posted for Mel was a respons, on her statement saying Terror is never an option in today's world. In some case I have a different opinion. As I posted before, there is a thin line between terrorists and freedomfighters. (often it only depends on which side you are on). Strictly speaking the resistance during WWII, would in today's world be regarded a terrorists.

I posted it seperately from an answer to you statements, and I didn't wanted to mix it up with Turkey and the PKK.

78. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

We're accepting deportation! ;)
Please see the difference between deportation and genocide clearly. Those Armenians who has deported were living in most problematic provinces and rebelling so often by England's instigations. You'll see many proves in that archives which shows that the government has cared them a lot by medically and logistically. However, because of the contagious diseases, winter conditions, many people have lost their lives. People who has died was not only the Armenians, many Turkish soldier, service member has died too.

On the other hand, same GENEration, was living in richness in Istanbul's most valuable places, offices. If it would be a genocide then the government of that time would start to their ethnic cleaning from the capital city huh?;)

My last words about this issue will be ended by saying "do you know what did happen in that time better than Katchaznouni who is the first prime minister of Armenia?" He's denying the genocide as well and describing the deportation as the best solution can be done by Ottoman government.
http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/1923Manifesto-FULLrecord.htm

Again you are telling only half the story:

These places where troublesome places for the Turkish government, the Armenians were perfectely happy living there. Making these deportations was a ludacris undertaking. By ordering these deportations, you make yourself responsable for these people, and you need to take care of them in all ways necessary. Clearly the Turkish government didn't do that is a sufficient way. You can argue that winter and disease, was the course of death for these people, fact is that if these people were not deported they wouldn't have died.

Your other point on starting ethnic cleaning(?) somewhere else, I only have to point to the Killing (not deporting!) most of the Armenian Elite in April 1915. (Where there are no Armenians left, you don't have to deport them). From other cities in Turkey there were also deportations to the camps in Syria.

And for everybody stating that there was no genocide, is always somebody else to find that states the opposite. The biggest problem is that a lot of prove is either lost or destroyed, and this case can only be proven by indirect evidence.

79. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

anyway, I'm alone and I've tired enough. Especially Bert's ideas describing Terror is a kind of right seeking method.

Not in 95% of the of all cases (including this one), but in some cases I can understand that people are forced to use these methods.

In your view, you could say that when Bosnia decleared itself a state, they should not defend themselves when Yugoslavia (Serbia) started a policy to remove every mulsim from this area, and to keep Bosnia within the Federation. Instead you wanted them to demonstrate?

80. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting stuthkfl

The reason why they're asking to set up a state is not the lack of rights. I'm really sure that most of them will come to Turkey for work, even if they set up a new country. The reason is oil.!!

Northern Iraq and the south east Turkey is including the richest oil reserve that most of it even hasn't used yet and really important for western countries especially for US after the peak of oil production. That's why they're supporting Kurdistan wishing to get a percentage from that new country' petrol thanks to their support..

As far as I know, Turkey, including the area that the PKK know as Kurdistan is not rich in oil. In fact, I have never heard, of it having any oil, at all. If I am wrong, please provide an internet link, where I can read about it.

I doubt, that the US are supporting Kurdistan. Especially, since they are so keen to keep on friendly terms, with Turkey.;)

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