Skip Navigation

moral imposition..?

Travel Forums Off Topic moral imposition..?

Page

Last Post

21. Posted by Utrecht (Moderator 5595 posts) 9y

Quoting Isadora

Quoting Utrecht

Quoting Isadora

I have a problem with someone just offering up their opinion on politics or health-related issues because we seem to rarely agree.

I understand this if it is irrelevant to the debate, but if the subject is about politics or health, is it problem that you don't agree? If we all agree, what's the need?

I should have been more precise in my comment...

Over the past few years, the majority of unsolicited political discussions have begun with comments such as, "You're an American. Your president is an asshole and your government sucks." or "I see you're running out of people to shoot at home so you invaded Iraq." I must admit, those are great ice-breakers for generating insightful discussion... Rarely does someone pose a question or make a non-aggressive comment to initiate the debate. Maybe it's just me, but my patience wears quite thin when the entire discussion is spent on the defensive. I will gladly debate politics when it is an exchange of ideas/opinions, but not when it begins in a highly combative way.

As for health-related issues and medicine in general - again, I am open to discussion and debate. And again, most of the people who start debates with me also are aware of my background in the medical field. Quite often, though less so than with political topics, I find the discussions beginning with accusations about my past work being wrong, how quilty I must feel for having worked in certain industries and the list goes on. If you wish to comment on something truly worthwhile, such as HIV/AIDS, healthcare reform, etc. then I will be more than willing to participate.

Aha, ok, now I understand your comment about going into debate better. Thanks Isa!
Didn't know about your background in health industry by the way. But that's probably something not to discuss here, so if you want, send me a PM about it.
By the way....your president is a big of an asshole to be honest..;)

22. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 9y

Quoting Utrecht

Aha, ok, now I understand your comment about going into debate better. Thanks Isa!

You are welcome. ;)

Didn't know about your background in health industry by the way. But that's probably something not to discuss here, so if you want, send me a PM about it.

I'll send that PM as you are correct, this is not the thread for such a discussion.

By the way....your president is a big of an asshole to be honest..;)

I have never said he isn't - just tired to hearing about it. There is more to political discussion than Baby Bush and his appointed handler, Dick Cheney. But, in another year and some months, this discussion will be moot as we will have had another election.

So, back to the topic...

23. Posted by garry moll (Budding Member 348 posts) 9y

Well mim.
You have all the tp,ers going now.
Debates I don’t mind, mediators are doing a good job in my eyes, keep up the good work.;)
Myself I like to be funny, I like to have fun, and the people I talk to are normally funny and light hearted, im not saying this has to be so all the time, I try to be inoffensive and treat people with respect. The way I would like to be treated.
Jokes can sometimes step over the mark and become offensive, thanks to the mediators things can kept on the right line.
One thing that bugs me is generalisation and tarring all with the same brush syndrome. Oh and class issues.
In general this site is fantastic and gives people freedom of speech and I don’t think anyone could knock tp for the way it is run. And the people that use it.

24. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 9y

Bah !!! Just to set the record straight. I've got incontrovertible proof that I'm always right !!

25. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

I love a good discussion, but with good arguments and respect. If there is no intention for somebody to even listen to somebody else, and weigh his/her arguments then a discussion is a waste of time. If you can't listen you can't have a discussion.

I know that I have different views than other people, and all I want is to let people see, that there are other views around, then those that might be theirs. In a lot of cases there is not 1 truth, there are more. (or is some cases, there is no truth.) I am guilty on imposing my view? I guess I am. Do I have the illusion to think that someone who I had a discussion with, is now thinking along my lines, instead of the way (s)he was thinking when the discussion was started? No, but I would like it if (s)he had considered my opinion as an alternative.

The real problem starts when you have a discussion about politics or religions. All of a sudden people seem to get narrow-minded, and won't even listen to what somebody else's believes are, and start to build up defenses. I guess for me that is the same, I don't have a religion, and I am really sure that I know that there is no God. Having a discussion with somebody who is convinced that there is a God is in 99.9% pointless, as I am not going to move one inch from my position, and the other person isn't moving as well. So you are left throwing arguments on the table, that are ignored, and pushed aside, without taking notice of the content. And it usualy ends up in discussing details of so called prove, of which one person thinks it is prove, and the other claiming it isn't.

I don't know if it was ever discussed or not, but I think that everybody has to be aware that TP is a site to discuss travels, share experiences, and is not set up, as a website to discuss politics. I for one would have no problem with it, if TP would decide to make a rule to not discuss Religion or Politics. There are sites enough where you can do that if you feel the need to. That has nothing to do with restricting freedom of speech, that's just laying out the rules, if you don't like it start your own forum.

[ Edit: Edited on May 14, 2007, at 4:55 PM by Herr Bert ]

26. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

I don't know if it was ever discussed or not, but I think that everybody has to be aware that TP is a site to discuss travels, share experiences, and is not set up, as a website to discuss politics. I for one would have no problem with it, if TP would decide to make a rule to not discuss Religion or Politics. There are sites enough where you can do that if you feel the need to. That has nothing to do with restricting freedom of speech, that's just laying out the rules, if you don't like it start your own forum.

I agree with u, to some extent Herr Bert.
I consider conversations about religion and politics a useful tool, to discover angles I have not yet considered. However, when these conversations are peppered with people people arguing about the way others are arguing and people objecting to the conversation taking place at all, etc then I wonder if I can make any progress at all, in learning about politics. Therefore the conversation may as well not take place, at all.
On the other hand, I am not convinced that people should have a right to object to conversations about these things. This kind of refusal to look at things is what causes a lot of very bad things in society to take hold. Consider pre Nazi Germany. People barely had enough to eat. Then suddently there were jobs and money for everybody, so Hitler was doing a wonderful job. Did people ever discuss where the jobs and money were comming from all of a sudden and why? And if they did, could there have been enough resistance to the Nazi party, to change history?
These subjects are so important in society and I think they should be important to peolple who travel, if they are interested in their own and other peoples cultures.
Also, I dont think it is just religion and politics that cause arguments on this site. I have seen a few other causes too. People even argue about whose travel information is "correct" and whether this type of traveller or that type is more valid.....etc
Likely this post will irritate the hell out of some people, as Mim says, but how many rules would have to be made, in order to eliminate all things that irritate people here.;)

[ Edit: Edited on May 15, 2007, at 12:44 AM by Mel. ]

27. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

Mel, I am only ask the question if this site is the place to be discussing religion and politics. You have a point that it is a good thing to have knowledge about the politic situation in countries, as they can influence your trip.

28. Posted by Fun Bobby (Budding Member 115 posts) 9y

I love discussions/debates/ arguments. Nothing better.

Personally I love to let others rant and rave about a topic, take my time, and then pull their argument apart piece by piece, very satisfying indeed. I may not even agree with the argument I am making myself, but if they can't defend their own point properly then thats their fault isn't it

I just like to come on TP for the travel advise and off topic banter. Occassionally though it becomes very clear than some humour doesn't travel very well and people can get the wrong end of the stick, or maybe its the way I tell them?

[ Edit: Edited on May 15, 2007, at 6:33 AM by Fun Bobby ]

29. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

However, when these conversations are peppered with people people arguing about the way others are arguing and people objecting to the conversation taking place at all, etc then I wonder if I can make any progress at all, in learning about politics.

Learning about politics and religion, definitely not. But learning about people, yes. That's a part of learning about other people's cultures isn't it. Conflict and disagreement are an integral part of our lives.

As such, I don't have a problem with discussions on controversial topics, but I do appreciate it when people keep the discussion civil and are aware of other people feelings and points of view. You know yourself how quickly these things can degenerate into childish name calling.

Page