Skip Navigation

Anyone been to Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia?

Travel Forums Europe Anyone been to Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia?

Page
  • 1
  • 2

Last Post

11. Posted by Dominatrix (Budding Member 43 posts) 9y

Quoting juu

There is isntitutionalised racism in Great Britain too (which discriminates heavily against all Commonwealth citizens and to a different degree between them, having explicitly racist statements in their legislation that Strasbourg court routinely annuls, and all that because they made the silly decision to abandon their Atlantic allegiance for the Franco-German one).

So if UK continued their allegiance with the US then it could continue to be racist? That is just absurd. Also calling UK racist is completely crazy. Can you give examples of this?

[...]Does affirmative action ring a bell?

The law granting citizenship to Hong Kong residents of a specific background after the handover to China is one of the hundreds of examples of the UK racist policies.

Not knowing that is your right, but calling others crazy because of your ignorance makes one appear stupid.

Not being able to read the meaning of other people's posts is not very commendable either. Affirmative action is a policy of the government, not what 90% of males think.

I don't have further time to waste for trying to persuade you, you may remain happily fascist, but I am not going to condonme that when asked by other people.

12. Posted by juu (Budding Member 7 posts) 9y

I am not the only one who believes the policies of the Baltic states are reasonable and you and a few Russian ultranacionalists are the few who think they aren't and can be called "fascist". Here are some quotes from an Economist article who, I believe, is always a very reasonable and unbiased publication.

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_RQPNRDR

The collapse of the evil empire left Estonia with hundreds of thousands of resentful, stranded ex-colonists, citizens of a country that no longer existed.

Some countries might have deported them. That was the remedy adopted in much of eastern Europe after the second world war. Germans and Hungarians—regardless of their citizenship or politics—were sent “home” in conditions of great brutality.

Instead, Estonia, like Latvia next door, decided to give these uninvited guests a free choice. They could go back to Russia. They could stay but adopt Russian citizenship. They could take local citizenship (assuming they were prepared to learn the language). Or they could stay on as non-citizens, able to work but not to vote.

Put like that, it may sound fair. But initially it prompted howls of protest against “discrimination”, not only from Russia but from Western human-rights bodies. The Estonians didn’t flinch. A “zero option”—giving citizenship to all comers—would be a disaster, they argued, ending any chance of restoring the Estonian language in public life, and of recreating a strong, confident national identity.

They were right. More than 100,000 of the Soviet-era migrants have learnt Estonian and gained citizenship. In 1992, 32% of the population had no citizenship. Now the figure is 10%.

In 1990, before the final Soviet collapse, your correspondent tried to buy postage stamps in Tallinn using halting Estonian. The clerk replied brusquely, in Russian, “govorite po chelovecheski” (speak a human language). That was real discrimination. Estonians were unable to use their own language in their capital city. Now that’s changed too.

Reasonable people can disagree about the details of the language law, about the right level of subsidies for language courses, and about the rules for gaining citizenship. Nowhere’s perfect. But Estonia’s system is visibly working. It is extraordinarily hard to term it a burning issue for an international human-rights organisation.

This applies to Latvia as well (give or take a few percentage points).

You are really bent on hyperbole. You don't think twice before calling something fascist, racist or what not even though these terms don't apply at all in the places where you use them. Why do you feel the need to overdramatize even though it marginalizes your points?

P.S.

Affirmative action is a policy of the government, not what 90% of males think.

You're a mindreader now? Wow.

[ Edit: Edited on May 30, 2007, at 12:33 AM by juu ]

13. Posted by Dominatrix (Budding Member 43 posts) 9y

Now you are genuinely ludicrous; you are bringing a quote on totally unrelated issues as a -- what? -- silly attempt to prove something???!!

I NEVER said ANYTHING about Estonia, but about Latvia.

Besides, The Economist is mostly the loudspeaker of certain (Western capitalist) so-called "free" market values, which are BY NO MEANS the only ones -- or indeed the best ones -- in the world.

So while it might even be occasionally objective -- to a point -- it most certainly isn't always so.

I already told you: I don't care, remain happy in what you see as your Greater Latvian Nationalist Dream Utopia, and I will call it what I know it is: fascism towards Russians and extreme homophobia.

And this is my strong belief, based on experience in beautiful Riga, which you are incapable of changing a single notch.

As for racism in Britain, only a seriously mentally retarded person would dare publicly claim that it does not exist.

Perhaps it is not fully isntitutionalised -- in the British case it was shown to have been a part of the system in many cases that went to the European Court of Justice in Strasbourg -- but it is prevalent throughout society.

Ditto for discrimination of women the world over.

But you may think whatever you fancy, I don't care. I made a statement on the real situation in Latvia and a serious mature discussant were supposed to give counter-statements and not to enter into personal commentaries about the opponent.

14. Posted by juu (Budding Member 7 posts) 9y

Quoting Dominatrix

Now you are genuinely ludicrous; you are bringing a quote on totally unrelated issues as a -- what? -- silly attempt to prove something???!!

I NEVER said ANYTHING about Estonia, but about Latvia.

I don't have relevant quotes from Economist on Latvia, but the quotes it made on Estonia fully apply to Latvia as well (and you haven't given any reasons why they wouldn't). It's not like the policies of the countries in regards to the Russian-speaking "minorities" differ much; nor does the overall situation differ much in this respect.

Yes, they've been targeted more by the Russian propoganda machine lately due to moving the monument of the "unknown soldier" but if anything that should probably put them higher on your absurd "fascism scale".

Do you understand now how these quotes apply to Latvia even though written about Estonia or do you need further explanation?

Besides, The Economist is mostly the loudspeaker of certain (Western capitalist) so-called "free" market values, which are BY NO MEANS the only ones -- or indeed the best ones -- in the world.

OK, which values are better than those? Which values do you prefer?

I already told you: I don't care, remain happy in what you see as your Greater Latvian Nationalist Dream Utopia, and I will call it what I know it is: fascism towards Russians and extreme homophobia.

Well, I'll leave you to your misconceptions, but again I must state for the record that neither terms are representative for the general population of Latvia, nor its goverment policies.

And this is my strong belief, based on experience in beautiful Riga, which you are incapable of changing a single notch.

I understand that you've made up your mind. That's kinda sad, but if it makes you feel better about yourself and who you are (or perhaps are not) so be it.

[ Edit: Edited on May 30, 2007, at 4:31 AM by juu ]

15. Posted by majaDK (Budding Member 20 posts) 9y

hey!

k i didn't read the bitch fight (chill out), so there might be some things that have already been said!

but i took the tour! lol if you can call it that! i went by car, but i DOUBT that any train or bus or anything that moves is very well organized, seeing as in estonia they only have one very SMALL highway leading into the capital & if you look at a map, the roads, well they suck! i'd say the further you head west from tallinn the better it gets, but to be honest, the standard is very low, but CHEAP, so no offense guys, i like cheap !

i think you should check out the interrail website, to be honest, i didn't catch where you are from, but i can tell you that if you're not an EU resident, you cannot obtain an interrail pass.

as for the temperature, it's great around that time (i went in august too) & it's fairly summer'ish, but not killer heat & practically no rain, at least when i went!

they do have ATMs, but i'd be careful about using your credit card at, for example, a gas station, but that's only because i'm mad that a lady slammed my card onto the magnetic counter, thereby KILLING it, thanks estonian gas lady!

anyway, i'd just like to, again, point out that it's CHEAAAAAAAP, like you would not believe! CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP! k i think i've stressed it enough!

lol, i hope it helped. have a great trip! :)

PS - the public transportation in the capitals (vilnius, riga & tallinn) is fairly good, so it shouldn't be a problem getting around there!

Page
  • 1
  • 2