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Women (few) behave BADLY !!

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101. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 9y

Hey Q, I am not anti religious. I agree with you completely when you say that many great things have come from religion and many religions foster good ways of living. But (don't you just love the word but?) that doesn't excuse certain actions does it? Myself I am more of a spiritual person than 'religious'... but then I would also contend we are all religious in some fashion.

You can take this into any realm outside of religion. Let's say a corporation has done some great things, it has created jobs, infrastructure, but not as publicized it also has many overseas factories with horrible conditions. Does the good out way the bad? Honest question. I'm not blaming Islam - they are not better and no worse than any of mans ideologies - and maybe that's where my point lies... all of these doctrines and rules are created by men and I don't mean men as in humanity... I mean the MEN of the world.

102. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Q'

That's seems like a very biased view on religion, B. I'm not religious, but religion (yes, even the Muslim one) has done a number of wonderful things and continues to do a number of wonderful things for the world as well. It's given some people hope, and mental strength to live and do great things most importantly. Sometimes being told what to do and when to do it is a good way to live. Fewer worries, and stresses. Less of a loss of reference.

I certainly have no argument against what u say about religion saying many good things and giving people hope. That is the positive side of it. If only it did not become corrupted.

Being told what to do and doing it blindly can be very dangerous.
The army(well some armies) is even teaching soldiers that blindly following orders is not acceptable. Apparently, many soldiers during the second world war refused to accept that they were responsible for the war crimes they committed, because they were only following orders.
As for others accepting being told what to do and doing it as a way of life. Everybody has a destination in life, which only they themselves can determine.

[ Edit: Edited on Jul 13, 2007, at 1:34 PM by Mel. ]

103. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Brendan

In complete contrast, in the west women are oppressed by unattainable levels of fake beauty.

I think this is a different thing, Brendan.
Women commonly believe either consiously or subconsiously, that the younger and more beautiful they are, the more worthy of love they are. Of course it is not the case, and if women realised it, the whole cosmetics industry would probably collapse. I suppose it is a form of oppression, but only because we allow it to be, with our lack of knowledge of sexual psychology. Without this knowledge we can be way too influenced by the advertising everywhere that tells us, we can be more worthy of love, if we buy this and that product to make ourselves younger and more beautiful.

Men commonly believe that the more successful they are materially, the more worthy they are of love.

[ Edit: Edited on Jul 13, 2007, at 1:48 PM by Mel. ]

104. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Men commonly believe that the more successful they are materially, the more worthy they are of love.

Mainly because women have manipulated that image. This actually plays to the conditions set forth by women of what they find worthy in a mate/man. If you can not afford me then you don't deserve me. Once a leg of mammoth made women happy because they were able to eat. Prosperity was in the form of who could supply enough food to survive a winter. That has transcended into engagement rings worth 3 month's salary. You want a Barbie wife, you pay for that Barbie wife.

Cosmetics are a vanity issue. Headcovering in a mosque are a religious issue.

105. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 9y

I believe they are the same issue Isadora, or at least have the same underlying issues. Manipulation, dominance, control. In one way control through spirituality, the other through vanity - still the same outcome.

Quoting Mel.

I suppose it is a form of oppression, but only because we allow it to be..

The same can be said of being forced to cover ones head. It seems we always come back to the victim. The victim is being forced to cover their head or suffer the consequences. The victim is being bombarded with advertisements telling them to look more beautiful or suffer the consequences. To me it comes down to people exploiting human weakness. If anyone is at fault it is the oppressor(s). You can carry it into any avenue of abuse: rape, slavery, manipulation via adverts, censorship.

Green face of Love

106. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

I certainly have no argument against what u say about religion saying many good things and giving people hope.

But I do ... but I will save them for another topic.

107. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 9y

Did you start a new topic Herr Bert? I'm interested in what your arguments are

108. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Brendan

The same can be said of being forced to cover ones head. It seems we always come back to the victim. The victim is being forced to cover their head or suffer the consequences.

Brendan, there is quite a difference between the consequences I will recieve, if I do not wear make up on my trip into Munich center today, and what will happen if I leave my hotel not wearing my headscarf in Iran next October.
Of course, I still feel some anxiety about my looks and age, but this has become a lot less with more education about psychology. I have this choice, to do what I want, and have access to all the information I want, so I dont think I am being oppressed.

I think, if women choose men to marry because they are rich and men choose women because they look like Barbies dolls, they are being overly materialistic. We have the choice to balance our lives, if we want. I think, when we achieve a democracy and a certain amount of freedom in our countries, we must then take some responsibility to create the lives we want. One can open the cage, but can one force the bird to fly out? We cannot wait for society to give us permission to stop focussing too much on materialism.

[ Edit: Edited on Jul 14, 2007, at 12:57 AM by Mel. ]

109. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 9y

Mel, shut up and go get me another beer.

Oh, and shut up!

110. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting james

Mel, shut up and go get me another beer.

Oh, and shut up!

Why dont u just pray, that i'll shut up?;)

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