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Women (few) behave BADLY !!

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51. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Herr Bert

Just behave, like you are asked to, and for that matter: behave everywhere. If you don't know if there are special rules, ask for them, or at least be a bit reserved.

What if u are told, that the rules are that all bisexuals are to wear gloves, when entering a certain building? What would u do?
1. Wear the gloves, because it is important to behave, by obeying the rules, and afterall owners of buildings are entitled to make rules, even if their buildings are open to international tourists?
2. Wear the gloves, but feel discriminated against?
3. Not enter the building at all, as a show of protest?
4. Other? Please explain.

If there would be a perfectly good explaination why bisexuals, should wear gloves, then I probably would wear gloves, if I would feel like it was purely to discriminate I would probably not visit.

My point is that if you enter a building of any kind, (can ne a church, can be a bar) you know that there are different 'rules and values' in almost everyone of the, and by entering you acknowledge these rules, and act like them. (you don't go into the Dom in Cologne, and start singing Sympathy for the devil out loud. If you do that in a Karaoke bar in Japan, you will get applause for the same thing. If you were to go into a gaybar, and start lecturing the people there that the pope says that being gay is wrong, what do you think the response will be? My prediction is that you will find yourself outside of the bar, in a couple of seconds. (although in some places, they like a good discussion) If you say that in a church, you might raise a few eyebrows, with people who disagree, but that's it. You see: same message, different stage, different response.

That a building is open for international tourists, doesn't mean the rules for visitors have changed. At the vatican, you are asked to dress in a way that is respectful (no shorts, cover your shoulders), if you don't, you are send away. Most people forget, that when you enter a church or a similar building, you are (in most cases) entering a privat area. If you are a guest at somebody's house, you also don't walk up to the fridge to get yourself a beer, and you don't go round looking in cupboards. The same applies for these places, if you are visiting, as a believer or a tourist, that shouldn't make a difference.

Some cultures have different rituals, that we look upon as strange (and in some cases we even laugh about). But that something is different or even weird, doesn't mean it is worse or better, it means it is just different. I am pretty sure, that if people in 2507 look back at 2007, and our western 'rituals' people will also laugh. We now, laugh at people who think that the world is flat, and people that think that the enitre universe is revolving around the Earth. But the people a couple of hundred years ago believed it. Does that make them fools? With our knowledge of today, you might want to say: yes, how could they ever believed that?. The same will be true about our era, in the future.

Seeing Cathedrals, Mosques etc, for me is always a thing that causes mixed feelings. First of all I am an atheist, so for me it has no religious value. As a lover of architecture, you have to admit that in most cities, these places are the most beautiful in town, and when I think about how much it has cost to build a building like that, and how the money was gathered (in my opinion robbed, from people who had better spend it in a different way), it makes me feel sad. Do I as a bisexual have a problem to visit religious sites? not really because I am not religious, so I don't mind what they think about me on a personal level, but I know that a lot of people have a hard time being gay, lesbian, bisexuals and being religious. Although I can't think of one thing why a religion would not/can not expect homosexuals in there community.

Well said Herr Bert.

52. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

Some cultures have different rituals, that we look upon as strange (and in some cases we even laugh about). But that something is different or even weird, doesn't mean it is worse or better, it means it is just different. I am pretty sure, that if people in 2507 look back at 2007, and our western 'rituals' people will also laugh. We now, laugh at people who think that the world is flat, and people that think that the enitre universe is revolving around the Earth. But the people a couple of hundred years ago believed it. Does that make them fools? With our knowledge of today, you might want to say: yes, how could they ever believed that?. The same will be true about our era, in the future.

No, I think it does not make them fools. I see exactly what u mean. But at the same time, it is very difficult for me to wait patiently for it to become common knowledge in the world, that the sexes are equal, especially when I belong to the the one which is considered inferior by too high a percentage of the worlds people.

53. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting james

Quoting beerman

Ultimately, I would like to know dear Mel, who is going to pick up the trash when you're done cleaning the world?

If you supply the beers, I'll put my hand up as will mikeyBoab and Jase007.

And if there are any bikini wearing girls from Malaysia that want to chip in, then more the merrier I say

And I will be giving u an eyeful too. I wont be wearing a headscarf.

54. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting james

Quoting beerman

Ultimately, I would like to know dear Mel, who is going to pick up the trash when you're done cleaning the world?

If you supply the beers, I'll put my hand up as will mikeyBoab and Jase007.

And if there are any bikini wearing girls from Malaysia that want to chip in, then more the merrier I say

And I will be giving u an eyeful too. I wont be wearing a headscarf.

You can be our beer wench; if mikeyBoab and Jase agree. Personally, I don't have any problems for you applying for the position

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/27/1072308726619.html

55. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Do beer wenches clean up the world?

56. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Herr Bert

Some cultures have different rituals, that we look upon as strange (and in some cases we even laugh about). But that something is different or even weird, doesn't mean it is worse or better, it means it is just different. I am pretty sure, that if people in 2507 look back at 2007, and our western 'rituals' people will also laugh. We now, laugh at people who think that the world is flat, and people that think that the enitre universe is revolving around the Earth. But the people a couple of hundred years ago believed it. Does that make them fools? With our knowledge of today, you might want to say: yes, how could they ever believed that?. The same will be true about our era, in the future.

No, I think it does not make them fools. I see exactly what u mean. But at the same time, it is very difficult for me to wait patiently for it to become common knowledge in the world, that the sexes are equal, especially when I belong to the the one which is considered inferior by too high a percentage of the worlds people.

But why do you have to wait patiently? I think that is exactly what too many women are doing at this moment. Don't wait! be part of the chance.

57. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Herr Bert

Some cultures have different rituals, that we look upon as strange (and in some cases we even laugh about). But that something is different or even weird, doesn't mean it is worse or better, it means it is just different. I am pretty sure, that if people in 2507 look back at 2007, and our western 'rituals' people will also laugh. We now, laugh at people who think that the world is flat, and people that think that the enitre universe is revolving around the Earth. But the people a couple of hundred years ago believed it. Does that make them fools? With our knowledge of today, you might want to say: yes, how could they ever believed that?. The same will be true about our era, in the future.

No, I think it does not make them fools. I see exactly what u mean. But at the same time, it is very difficult for me to wait patiently for it to become common knowledge in the world, that the sexes are equal, especially when I belong to the the one which is considered inferior by too high a percentage of the worlds people.

But why do you have to wait patiently? I think that is exactly what too many women are doing at this moment. Don't wait! be part of the chance.

Is the fact, that I discuss issues, such as the ones in this post not an indication, that I am acting, as well as trying to be patient?
I also read a lot about sexual politics and psychology, in order to get the best the world has to offer women, at the current time. Women my age have no real role models. We are essentially groping around in the dark. I think the current apathy about feminist issues is due to frustration and confusion. If behaving like men and seeking what satisifies men has not turned out to be the way to greater satisfaction for women, what should they try instead? Also the major problem is that what really satisifies women is at odds with the world as it is at the moment. A woman who listens to her soul may also have to compromise her status and wealth, in the materialisic climate of the Western world.

58. Posted by Herr Bert (Moderator 1384 posts) 9y

I think that a lot of the apathy is also coming from having too many groups, that want the attention of everybody, and some groups have been around for so long, that people don't even hear the message anymore. Also other things are competing for out attention. (try to avoid the ads, being thrown at you, by the thousands everyday ... even to the left of my screen I see ads )

I presume everybody who wants to be succesful (and you can explain succesful in many ways) needs to the person she/he really is.

59. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Herr Bert

I think that a lot of the apathy is also coming from having too many groups, that want the attention of everybody, and some groups have been around for so long, that people don't even hear the message anymore. Also other things are competing for out attention. (try to avoid the ads, being thrown at you, by the thousands everyday ... even to the left of my screen I see ads )

I presume everybody who wants to be succesful (and you can explain succesful in many ways) needs to the person she/he really is.

Exactly.
Remain focused on your personal success, even if it takes putting on blinkers temporarily, to decide what personal success means to u.
That is what u mean, I think.

Although, I am not sure that there are too many groups. Society is a living thing, that changes and develops. The less dominant groups may disturb the status quo, in order to be included, but I think they are entitled.

[ Edit: Edited on Jul 2, 2007, at 3:45 AM by Mel. ]

60. Posted by lagered (Budding Member 230 posts) 9y

Hello to all. After reading through this topic I find it oddly strange that it seems to have been taken as a personal attack on Mel. While I understand your point (Mel) I would argue that you are reading too far into the original post. Claiming that bisexuals should wear gloves to prove your point that women aren’t regarded as equal isn’t the best policy. Women's rights do need to be taken seriously, but stammering on about how a place of religious solitude should have taken into account your view(s) is hardly the right platform to jump off to gain respect for yourself and your gender. These are not the days of 'be seen and not heard,' so why do you act is if they are? While some parts of the world still hold to an alternate way of life than I would prefer, I don’t go complaining about how they choose to live because my standards are different than theirs. That would be like me complaining about how you continually refuse to spell "you" as opposed to "u." This makes you sound less intelligent, but that’s just my $0.02.

In conclusion, the original post was made in attempt to gain more knowledge of local customs when you travel. Isn’t the whole point of this website and forum to gain knowledge of local customs before you travel? I don’t know about any of you, but when I travel I try to respect the traditions whether it is of general, political or even religious nature. If I don’t agree with how a particular function and/or venue are run, I simply don’t go there rather than offending them and/or myself.

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