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What is with American cops

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21. Posted by vegasmike6 (Travel Guru 3562 posts) 9y

Quoting ozman

But doesn't the PRC and Iran have a lower incarceration rate than the US? I believe that the US actually has the highest rate of incarceration in the world, throughout its entire history.

I did a quick search and it does list the US as having the highest incarceration rate on the planet. Many of those are for non violent drug offenses. My question to you is: Do you think there are more criminals per capita in the US than any of the other 200 countries on the planet? Yes? No? Or are we better at catching criminals than other countries, give them longer sentences, and have a free press that reports these statistics? Pretty hard to get a reliable number from the PRC, Laos, Nigeria, Sierra Leone or the Democratic Republic of the Congo. I will take my chances with US cops and our justice system than about a 100 other countries I could name.

22. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

As well as what Vegasmike says, I also think the US can afford financially to keep more prisoners, than many other countries can.
In Ireland, the prisons are so overcrowded that only the worst and most hopeless of criminals are put in them. ie often those who have done serious crimes are not put in prison, based on a psychiatrists report that they are unlikely to reoffend.
There was public uproar a number of years ago, when a date rapist was convicted but not put in prison, on condition that he got counselling. He was not put in prison, becasue a psychiatric report said he is unlikely to reoffend.


23. Posted by ozman (Full Member 118 posts) 9y

To answer Mike: Has the US more criminals than other countries? Well, I suppose that is all contingent on what is a crime. In Queensland, minor drug offenders will certainly not wind up in prison normally. In fact, they can escape a conviction if they agree to go into counselling the first time they are caught. Yes, the US has more money to go after these poor people and its politicians will undoubtedly reap the rewards bestowed on them by unenlightened voters.

Clearly, Mike puts the US justice system below the 93 other countries on Earth. Obviously, the whole western world with a few left over could be included in this allowance. I would far rather deal with the Australian, Candadian, British, New Zealand or any country in Western Europe over the US justice system myself!

Ireland is shoulder-to-shoulder with Britain in that it is simply not building any more prisons. Prison should be only for the "mister one percent." Only the very worst offenders should be in prison, certainly not people caught with a bit of smoko or a pill!


24. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting ozman

Yes, the US has more money to go after these poor people and its politicians will undoubtedly reap the rewards bestowed on them by unenlightened voters.

What on earth are u talking about, with that comment?
I cant see what rewards are in it for politicians, when people spend some time in prison.

And there are 194 countries in the world, not 93.;)

Here is a report about some police conduct in Turkey

In April, four police officers accused of the torture and rape with a truncheon of two teenagers, Nazime Ceren Salmano¬lu and Fatma Deniz Polatta§, in 1999 were acquitted. More than six years after the judicial process had begun and after the case had been delayed more than 30 times, a court in ±skenderun acquitted the officers due to “insufficient evidence”. Lawyers for the young women announced that they would appeal against the decision. The two women had been sentenced to long prison terms on the basis of “confessions” allegedly obtained under torture.
Fifteen years after the death of university student Birtan Alt¹nba§, the trial of four police officers accused of killing him continued in the Ankara Heavy Penal Court No. 2. Birtan Alt¹nba§ died on 15 January 1991 following six days in police custody, during which he was interrogated on suspicion of being a member of an illegal organization. The case, which received international condemnation and was widely reported in the Turkish press, demonstrated many aspects of the flawed judicial process.
The trial of four police officers charged with killing Ahmet Kaymaz and his 12-year-old son U¬ur Kaymaz on 21 November 2004 in the K¹z¹ltepe district of Mardin began in February. The four officers on trial were not under arrest and were still on active duty. It was significant that senior officers responsible for the police operation during which the two individuals were killed were excluded from the investigation and not charged, supporting the view that in cases of this kind prosecutors rarely examined the chain of command.

25. Posted by ozman (Full Member 118 posts) 9y

93 + the 100 mentioned earlier = 193. Read the whole thing Mel. The UN recognises 193 I thought.

Granted, you will find worse police in the world, but perhaps they are not so prevalent in the developed world. A country like Turkey does not claim to be "the land of the free." Nor does its leader called "the leader of the free world." These titles are self indulgent when you look at the US's incarceration rate, the establishments it runs such as Guantanamo Bay and the fact that it flies terror suspects around the world to be tortured. This to invoke but a few examples.

26. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Ozman, who is in prison in the US, that u think should not be there?

27. Posted by vegasmike6 (Travel Guru 3562 posts) 9y

The Olympics have over 200 countries participate, so I was being even more selective! But seriously, the US does lock up many of its citizens. We have the space and the money to do so. Most countries do not. If Nigeria tried to lock up those that take bribes or steal, well the economy would grind to a halt. The US system of justice is not perfect, that is why I am against the death penalty. Juries just don't get it right all the time. Quick look at the O.J. Simpson case, Robert Blake's trial, first Menendez trial, or the Rodney King case will prove this point. Juries are made up of people and you are always going to have errors made in judgement. But, it it the best system overall for the average guy to get a fair shake. Innocent until proven guilty. Some countries, Mexico for example, you are guilty because we arrested you. Now prove to us that you are innocent. China is another example of not giving the accused a fair hearing. Pretty tough go once arrested in the PRC.

Is the US perfect? No! It is not. But you at least have a chance to prove your side of the charges.

28. Posted by Haza_H (Budding Member 25 posts) 8y

Quoting kombizz

NEVER believe what so ever you see in the Hollywood movies, otherwise you would believe in the Spiderman, Superman, Godzilla and
you could be one of those who live in the coco land !

I second that...

29. Posted by Sparhawke (Budding Member 14 posts) 8y

How did this actually get so offtopic? lol, wasnt the original poster asking if the police really were as bad as they are depicted on reality TV? How did this end up on politics, prison & how many countries there are on the planet? ;P

I actually know an american cop I have been speaking to for quite a while now, she is also in the reserves for the army, full time cop and she has never had to pull her gun but that does not mean she is not prepared, I think what americans have all been blinded by is that they are meant to be entertained, they are not supposed to think for themselves therefore they are shown one type of thing constantly and that is all you get, 24/7...I have no problem at all with walking up to a cop and asking for directions or just greeting them in the morning on my way for a paper, something I have done so many times in the past...simply because I do not waste my time simply with what I am forcefed and this is the difference. I actually know cops and know they are human, they just have a difficult job to do where they have to be forever ready for anything.

30. Posted by vegasmike6 (Travel Guru 3562 posts) 8y

In 'general topics' and 'off topic' a thread could start out discussing soup and end up with a rant on the death penalty. Just the way it is on the free wheeling TP forum. Not true when dealing with the other forums.