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Depressing topic but....

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61. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 9y

Quoting Isadora

Quoting james

Oh it's so trendy to bash Bush

Who will be next in the firing line once he's gone but the problems that you care about so much are still with us?

I think we're going to have to wait for a year to find out.

Maybe I'm just (once again) tired of "the US sucks" rhetoric. Personally and honestly I'm curious, Kombizz, why you have chosen to stay in the US? This is not a leading question or one that will be used against you. I really want to know. It seems that you have great distain for the US but yet continue to make your home here. As I stated in my previous post, the forums are here for discussion and in that vain, I pose my question to you.

I'm not American, nor a great supporter of Bush. But the whole "yank bashing" and "Bush bashing" is rather tiring after all of this time.

Perhaps those that live in the US and hate the place so much should go and live somewhere else such as Saudi Arabia, China, Burma, Indonesia, continental Africa.....

62. Posted by Jase007 (Travel Guru 8870 posts) 9y

Quoting wotthefiqh

Quoting Jase007

Quoting wotthefiqh

Quoting wotthefiqh

Quoting Jase007

I have two thoughts on this:

1 = every super power needs an enemy, for without an enemy there is no need for a super power. This has been demonstrated time and again throughout history & is still very relevant today.

Perhaps you could elaborate on thought 1.

Did -
1) the Roman Empire need Attila the Hun?
2) the Byzantine Empire need moslem armies battering the gates of Constantinople for almost 800 years before Islam finally got a foothold in Europe?

Please demonstrate and make it relevant.

Hey Jase,
Are you gonna post any evidence supporting thought 1? -

The Rancid Ronin

Na, bored of the subject at the moment more pressing things on.
The patronising school teacher comments on elaboration just ruined it
Maybe if I can be bothered having a debate when/if I get back home in a few months.
Go ahead and comment though, just don't strain the brain too much eh ;) I won't read anything with paragraphs over 7 line long

Your avoidance of the question is ruining it for me
If this has been demonstrated so often, surely it would only take you a moment to substantiate your assertion, or is it nothing more than anti-americanism wrapped up in a cliche first voiced as soon as the Soviet Empire imploded back in 1989?

P.S. Your posts #9 and #17 in this thread ain't exactly short on rhetoric and some paragraphs may well be over 7 lines long

Awe go on then, since I won't be near a PC for 3 weeks or so.
Just for you

Me anti-american? na you have to have a nation that takes the lead (well you probably don't but it does seem to be a pattern through history Greece,Rome,China,Ottoman,British,USA).
Your since the soviet bloc collapsed comment, ouch man!! well remember I'm from a nation that told all the others to go stick their nuclear weapons up their a*ses in 1984. Suffered a terrorist attack from the French for which NZ recieved no backing from it so called allies and the perpetrators were handed over to the French government to be praised and awarded for their actions.
Time's change, the gap between the have's and have not is greater than ever before. The world population is increasing at a time when arable land is reducing at a staggering rate. The pressures on resources will continue to be pushed until the world can no longer sustain the animal population.
At this time the fish stocks will collapse, crops won't be enough to feed everyone and war will break out over the most precious of things - fresh water.

Sounds crap doesn't it, we are screwed so enjoy it whilst you can

63. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 9y

Quoting magykal1

I agree, the US bashing thing is a bit much sometimes. Sorry if I implied that with my original post...

Rob, your original comments voiced an opinion of concern without the implication of US bashing. Anyway, I did not come away with that feeling at the time of your posting nor even now. Being an American (and co-mod of this forum), I read these politically-motivated threads in their entirety (usually more than once) because they can take a turn for the worse quite easily. Having just read this thread again, the discussion has remained quite civil.

What I do take issue with is the pasting of large blocks of text copied from other sources with no commentary by the poster as to their relevance. I guess they are to be self-explanatory (stating the obvious, I know) but such actions commonly bring good discussions to a halt. Personally, I'd rather see a link to an article and some comment or question made by the poster in reference to the link. (Maybe I'm just picky and out of line, but I doubt I am alone here. )

...I wish I hadn't posted it now by the way...

Nah - don't feel that way!! ;)

can we have a 'retract entire thread' feature?

That would take all the fun out it!! Besides, I don't think it's on the Overloard's "To Do" list but I could be wrong...

Isa now returns this thread to it's originally scheduled topic or wherever Jase and wotthefiqh left off...

64. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Quoting Isadora

Isa now returns this thread to it's originally scheduled topic or wherever Jase and wotthefiqh left off...

Well Wotthefigh(pbuh), what do u make of what Jase said?

65. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 9y

Quoting kombizz

Attack on Iran will be military suicide

“Would you support such a strike even if it resulted in World War III, with US-Israel on one side, and Russia-China-Islam on the other?"

If the ayatollahs believe that Russia and China will join Islam in a war against the USA, they must be crazier than I
Allies during war,conflict or revolution need both a common purpose and vital reasons to cooperate.
The primary nexuses are Culture, Race, Political affinity, commercial self-interest, a common enemy or a mixture of these elements.
Russia and China have nothing whatsoever in common with Islam.
They both may well view the US as a diplomatic, commercial and political adversary, but that is a long way short of seeking military conflict.
The USA is the economic engine of the world's economy.
If the US economy sneezes, everyone else's economy catches a cold.
China's massive economic expansion is fuelled SOLELY by the continuing existence of the US and the health of it's import-sucking economy, and they aren't going to attack the goose that lays China's golden eggs.
Russia needs the US because it's economy fuels Europe's economies and Europe needs Russia's oil and gas and Russia needs the income.
The world can live without Iran's oil but it cannot live without the US.
As Billy Clinton wisely said - 'It's the economy, stupid'.

66. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

I see Russias motives in negotiating with Iran, as a means to make themselves appear bigger and more powerful in the US and Europes eyes. For example when the Russians living in Estonia were rioting last April, Russia was itching to get their hands on the situation. They couldnt because of the forces who were telling them to back off. If Russia entered a conflict with NATO it would likely be a long an bitter battle, with NATO putting them in their place in the end with a heap of restrictions to keep them there. What if Russia had the support of Iran and any other country who becomes threatened by the US?
But I think Wottefigh is right. Russia are unlikely to support Iran in conflict against the US, because what would they gain from it. So it would be in Russias interest to create a loose agreement to form an alliance with Iran and then not honour it when it comes to the crunch but Iran would honour it becasue they see themselves as under threat and if they do not form alliances....

I think in reality Iran would fare better if they use the negotiations they are having with Europe to form some ties with Europe. But that will not happen any time soon, because leaders such the president of Iran have little understanding of what negotiations between democratic countries involve. It would likely be possible for Europe to win Irans trust in time and thus help avoid the situation where Europe would have to go to war, but Russia sticking its oar in is seriously undermining the chances of this happening, because Russian style politics makes more sense to the Iranian president than true democratic politics.

67. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Quoting Isadora

Isa now returns this thread to it's originally scheduled topic or wherever Jase and wotthefiqh left off...

Well Wotthefigh(pbuh), what do u make of what Jase said?

Firstly, mind your g's and q's.
It's WOTTHEFIQH (spuh)

What should I make of Jase's last post?
I asked him to substantiate his assertion that 'every super power needs an enemy' and all I get are tales of French government terrorism and the the promise of a Malthusian future.
It's nothing but a tired old cliche.
Soviet Russia didn't need the US/Western democracies as it's mortal enemy but it's subject peoples (Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Czechs, East Germans, Slovaks, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Ukrainians, etc, etc) of totalitarian communism certanly did.
The proletariat destroyed their own dictatorship, and twas a beautiful thing to behold.
Democracies don't need enemies (we've had a gutful last century) but totalitarian regimes need enemies like fish need water.
My assertions CAN be easily substantiated

[ Edit: Edited on Nov 16, 2007, at 7:07 AM by wotthefiqh ]

68. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

Speaking of substantiating, Jase would u give a suggested series of events which will lead to the oil wars being replaced by water wars.

69. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 9y

Quoting Mel.

Speaking of substantiating, Jase would u give a suggested series of events which will lead to the oil wars being replaced by water wars.

What is this, TAG posting as opposed to TAG wrestling?
The assertion and refutation was about 'every super power needs an enemy', and bog all to do with oil or water.
Jase The Guru (aka Paul Atreides - God Emperor) will deign to list the Jaseadramus future of humanity?
Read the subject and posts, not the chicken entrails

70. Posted by Mel. (Travel Guru 4567 posts) 9y

I am interested in that particular comment Jase made.
I think anything is possible if it can be logically explained.
Maybe there is some truth that we may eventually run out of resources on this planet and eventually be scrabbling for water. However I dont see how this is going to happen. Water is completely recycled isnt it? Or does it somehow disappear..... It could maybe turn into something else like Hydrogen and Oxygen or else into some other molecule. But what series of events is going to cause this to happen in the world to such a extent that there will not be enough water?

But looks like u are more interested in the comment Jase made about every superpower needing an enemy. He can substantiate both questions cant he?;)

[ Edit: Edited on Nov 16, 2007, at 8:42 AM by Mel. ]