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61. Posted by Erik85 (Respected Member 274 posts) 8y

Quoting sapphyre

I'm a late to this post, but just to revive it a little...

We used to get lessons in school (might be sex or moral education, can't remember) where they told us homosexuals/people who feel inclined towards people of the same sex do not fall into the category of gays and lesbians unless they practise the lifestyle e.g. A girl who likes a girl is not labelled a lesbian unless she dates only girls and sleep with them. I do not know if this 'definition' is applicable anywhere else.

Hehe I don't think sociologists would like this definition. It kind of has a "everyone's heterosexual until it's blatantly obvious that you are not" kind of feel to it. There's a few flaws to it ie. young people who aren't ready to go the full way/people who don't want to have sex before marriage or strong commitment/etc.

Theres no strict definition of what constitutes as a gay/lesbian/bisexual, but particularly in bisexuals, not sure about gay/lesbian, a lot of researchers look at a model of identity, attraction and behaviour. Eg. someone could identify themselves as a bisexual, or be attracted to men and women (even though they don't identify themselves as a lesbian, quite common in people who don't want to put labels on themselves), or simply just engage in sexual behaviour with both men and women (most often NOT simultaneously).
It's also common for researchers to consider two mental and physical attraction components.

I guess, or hope, what your teacher may have been trying to point out is that a lot of people (particularly young people) experiment with this kind of thing, and may not like to put themselves under a category because a) they aren't sure, b) they're bisexual or "not-straight" as some people use (ie. Missy Higgins) c) they don't feel people need to categorise them, d) they might not want gay/lesbian stereotypes to be attached to them, etc.

Erik

62. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 8y

One may argue that bisexuality provides an extra entry point of a sexually transmitted desease from the gay population to the straight population. I don't know too many girls who would be happy knowing that the bloke they are having sex with was having sex with another bloke earlier. I'm sure this is only one of a few reasons.

In fact, I pose this question to the female members; "If you were in a sexual relationship with a male, what would your response be if you found out that he had had sexual relationships with other men in the past, and why would you have the response that you have?"

[ Edit: Edited on Jan 8, 2008, at 3:46 PM by james ]

63. Posted by arif_kool (Travel Guru 1757 posts) 8y

Quoting james

The difficulty that you have explained is one that is common to all people. For example, I see at least 10 or 20 girls everyday that I'd love to have sex with. However as I am happily married and therefore are someone "who finally made his mind up", I don't do it.

What if ur approached by the same 10-20 girls eager to have sex with u, will u still resist:)

64. Posted by arif_kool (Travel Guru 1757 posts) 8y

Quoting sapphyre

I'm a late to this post, but just to revive it a little...

We used to get lessons in school (might be sex or moral education, can't remember) where they told us homosexuals/people who feel inclined towards people of the same sex do not fall into the category of gays and lesbians unless they practise the lifestyle e.g. A girl who likes a girl is not labelled a lesbian unless she dates only girls and sleep with them. I do not know if this 'definition' is applicable anywhere else.

If u feel inclined towards people of same sex, ur a gay/lesbian, u need not necessarily have sex to come under gay/lesbian grouping. Sex usually follows the initial attraction.

65. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 8y

Quoting james

One may argue that bisexuality provides an extra entry point of a sexually transmitted desease from the gay population to the straight population. I don't know too many girls who would be happy knowing that the bloke they are having sex with was having sex with another bloke earlier. I'm sure this is only one of a few reasons.

Yes, you can argue that point and for a limited number of HIV/AIDS cases you would be correct. The vast majority of HIV/AIDS infections diagnosed among the heterosexual population stem from IV drug use, prostitution, unprotected sexual contact with someone from a region of high incidence (Sub-Saharan Africa & Haiti) and mother to unborn child transmission. (Australia, known as a very low incidence country, has seen a dramatic increase in the number of infections recently. This increase also correlates with the influx of people immigrating from high incidence countries and have unprotected sex.)

Quoting james

Quoting Herr Bert

That also is one of the difficulties of being a bisexual. If you are in a relationship with somebody, that will not turn you into a heterosexual (if you have relationship with somebody of the different sex), or a gay (if you have a relationship, with somebody of the same sex). But the outside world will in most cases judge you, as someone 'who finally made his mind up'. But inside you will still be drawn towards both sexes.

The difficulty that you have explained is one that is common to all people. For example, I see at least 10 or 20 girls everyday that I'd love to have sex with. However as I am happily married and therefore are someone "who finally made his mind up", I don't do it.

Sorry James (and no, I'm not picking on you), it's just not that black and white. There are multiple shades of gray involved with any relationship but bi-sexuality throws in a couple of extras just for the hell of it. You are attracted to women - that's obvious. Each one is individual in looks, wants, needs, attitudes, emotions and all the other things that make her a woman. But, one thing is constant - you will always be attracted to her because she is a woman. I'm attracted to men and the same holds true - each is different but still a man. In the world of bi-sexuality, someone is strongly drawn toward both genders and each gender has something different to offer this person that the other can not provide. The (sort of) black/white portion of that is the sexual encounters themselves - sex is sex. The gray areas involve the type of attraction, the style of physical love, the type of emotional support/caring, and several other factors. Where you and I had to "make up our minds" about a particular person of the opposite sex - something even heterosexuals aren't all that good at with an ~50% divorce rate - a bisexual person has to work against their own personal (biological) instincts to chose not only one person, but one gender. (As an example - as poor as it may be... You have two healthy legs that you really like a lot. Someone tells you they are going to remove one of your legs. But, lucky you, you get to decide which one goes. Hey, you'll still have one healthy leg... Hard decision to make.)

Quoting james

In fact, I pose this question to the female members; "If you were in a sexual relationship with a male, what would your response be if you found out that he had had sexual relationships with other men in the past, and why would you have the response that you have?"

My response would be the same as my response to him having had a sexual relationship with any woman in the past. But, since you asked...

During the early 80s, when HIV/AIDS were becoming epidemic in the gay communities, I lived in a predominantly gay neighborhood. I was also living with a very macho heterosexual boyfriend - or so I thought... At the time, there was a saying among my gay friends - "He who protests too much is gay" - and the comment was aimed toward me about my boyfriend. Ultimately, the comment was almost true as he finally came to grips with his bi-sexuality. We were together for five years, three of those while he was grappling with (and trying to deny) his own sexuality. I do not fault him for being bi-sexual. I fault him for being an major asshole in general and for not being honest with me. Whether it was his need to maintain the macho exterior or fear of rejection that didn't allow him to be honest - I don't know. (I still tend to blame the "major asshole" part of him.) I do remember when he finally told me he was "thinking about" sleeping with a gay friend of mine (who also thought he was a major asshole and would have said no - but neither here nor there). My first comment was "Good luck, Andre doesn't like you." I also remember having thoughts flash through my head about how many men he may have slept with before gaining the nerve to tell me about Andre. The thoughts weren't fueled by the fact that he'd slept with men, they were fueled by the thought of 80% of my old neighbors having been diagnosed with HIV in the past 6 months and did he use condoms. (We'd moved out of the neighborhood shortly before the "revelation".) Just for the record - the "revelation" did not cause the break-up of our relationship, it was the major asshole factor.

While living there, I spent an enormous amount of time with gay and bi-sexual friends and neighbors. I got to watch as relationships developed, fell apart or stayed together. I also learned a lot about the similarities and differences between straight, gay and bi-sexual relationships. In that time, I came to realize that I, personally, probably could not have been involved with a bi-sexual lover but also understood it was because of my own insecurities. I was of the belief that I could not compete with a male lover. Though I will (in most likelyhood) never be in such a situation, I don't view things the same way. So, again, my response would be the same as my response to him having had a sexual relationship with any woman in the past.

Isa now hands the soapbox off to someone else because she's tired of typing...

66. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 8y

Quoting arif_kool

Quoting james

The difficulty that you have explained is one that is common to all people. For example, I see at least 10 or 20 girls everyday that I'd love to have sex with. However as I am happily married and therefore are someone "who finally made his mind up", I don't do it.

What if ur approached by the same 10-20 girls eager to have sex with u, will u still resist:)

Arif, this happens all the time and I have to fight 'em off with a stick. Life is tough sometimes

67. Posted by james (Travel Guru 4136 posts) 8y

Quoting Isadora

Quoting james

One may argue that bisexuality provides an extra entry point of a sexually transmitted desease from the gay population to the straight population. I don't know too many girls who would be happy knowing that the bloke they are having sex with was having sex with another bloke earlier. I'm sure this is only one of a few reasons.

Yes, you can argue that point and for a limited number of HIV/AIDS cases you would be correct. The vast majority of HIV/AIDS infections diagnosed among the heterosexual population stem from IV drug use, prostitution, unprotected sexual contact with someone from a region of high incidence (Sub-Saharan Africa & Haiti) and mother to unborn child transmission. (Australia, known as a very low incidence country, has seen a dramatic increase in the number of infections recently. This increase also correlates with the influx of people immigrating from high incidence countries and have unprotected sex.)

Quoting james

Quoting Herr Bert

That also is one of the difficulties of being a bisexual. If you are in a relationship with somebody, that will not turn you into a heterosexual (if you have relationship with somebody of the different sex), or a gay (if you have a relationship, with somebody of the same sex). But the outside world will in most cases judge you, as someone 'who finally made his mind up'. But inside you will still be drawn towards both sexes.

The difficulty that you have explained is one that is common to all people. For example, I see at least 10 or 20 girls everyday that I'd love to have sex with. However as I am happily married and therefore are someone "who finally made his mind up", I don't do it.

Sorry James (and no, I'm not picking on you), it's just not that black and white. There are multiple shades of gray involved with any relationship but bi-sexuality throws in a couple of extras just for the hell of it. You are attracted to women - that's obvious. Each one is individual in looks, wants, needs, attitudes, emotions and all the other things that make her a woman. But, one thing is constant - you will always be attracted to her because she is a woman. I'm attracted to men and the same holds true - each is different but still a man. In the world of bi-sexuality, someone is strongly drawn toward both genders and each gender has something different to offer this person that the other can not provide. The (sort of) black/white portion of that is the sexual encounters themselves - sex is sex. The gray areas involve the type of attraction, the style of physical love, the type of emotional support/caring, and several other factors. Where you and I had to "make up our minds" about a particular person of the opposite sex - something even heterosexuals aren't all that good at with an ~50% divorce rate - a bisexual person has to work against their own personal (biological) instincts to chose not only one person, but one gender. (As an example - as poor as it may be... You have two healthy legs that you really like a lot. Someone tells you they are going to remove one of your legs. But, lucky you, you get to decide which one goes. Hey, you'll still have one healthy leg... Hard decision to make.)

Quoting james

In fact, I pose this question to the female members; "If you were in a sexual relationship with a male, what would your response be if you found out that he had had sexual relationships with other men in the past, and why would you have the response that you have?"

My response would be the same as my response to him having had a sexual relationship with any woman in the past. But, since you asked...

During the early 80s, when HIV/AIDS were becoming epidemic in the gay communities, I lived in a predominantly gay neighborhood. I was also living with a very macho heterosexual boyfriend - or so I thought... At the time, there was a saying among my gay friends - "He who protests too much is gay" - and the comment was aimed toward me about my boyfriend. Ultimately, the comment was almost true as he finally came to grips with his bi-sexuality. We were together for five years, three of those while he was grappling with (and trying to deny) his own sexuality. I do not fault him for being bi-sexual. I fault him for being an major asshole in general and for not being honest with me. Whether it was his need to maintain the macho exterior or fear of rejection that didn't allow him to be honest - I don't know. (I still tend to blame the "major asshole" part of him.) I do remember when he finally told me he was "thinking about" sleeping with a gay friend of mine (who also thought he was a major asshole and would have said no - but neither here nor there). My first comment was "Good luck, Andre doesn't like you." I also remember having thoughts flash through my head about how many men he may have slept with before gaining the nerve to tell me about Andre. The thoughts weren't fueled by the fact that he'd slept with men, they were fueled by the thought of 80% of my old neighbors having been diagnosed with HIV in the past 6 months and did he use condoms. (We'd moved out of the neighborhood shortly before the "revelation".) Just for the record - the "revelation" did not cause the break-up of our relationship, it was the major asshole factor.

While living there, I spent an enormous amount of time with gay and bi-sexual friends and neighbors. I got to watch as relationships developed, fell apart or stayed together. I also learned a lot about the similarities and differences between straight, gay and bi-sexual relationships. In that time, I came to realize that I, personally, probably could not have been involved with a bi-sexual lover but also understood it was because of my own insecurities. I was of the belief that I could not compete with a male lover. Though I will (in most likelyhood) never be in such a situation, I don't view things the same way. So, again, my response would be the same as my response to him having had a sexual relationship with any woman in the past.

Isa now hands the soapbox off to someone else because she's tired of typing...

Gret response there Isa.

You wrote that " having thoughts flash....about how many men he may have slept with before........... The thoughts weren't fueled by the fact that he'd slept with men, they were fueled by the thought of 80% of my old neighbors having been diagnosed with HIV in the past 6 months and did he use condoms."

Doesn't this mean that, ultimately, the thoughts were because he'd slept with men?

i.e.
- he was bi-sexual
- he'd slept with men
- many men were HIV positive in your neighbourhood

I posed this question to my wife last night. She said she wouldn't be happy having a sexual relationship with a bi-sexual guy because:

a). she percieved the chances of him having an STD/HIV to be higher than otherwise as he'd slept with gay guys.
b). just not comfortable going out with a guy who would be looking at other guys - seems "to weird"

68. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 8y

I'd care less that a bisexual boyfriend had male partners in the past - my concern would be that he'd one day decide he needed one in the present. But, as with any relationship, it's about honesty and commitment - and, like any relationship, you accept the risks of failing.

Never mind sexuality, what I don't understand is how people manage to eat mushrooms. What kind of messed up genetics and criss-crossed wiring do you have to have to put those things in your mouth and enjoy? Blech! Now that's just wrong.

69. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 8y

It's all good.....all about the love.....doesn't anyone watch Tila Tequila ????.......

70. Posted by Purdy (Travel Guru 3546 posts) 8y

Quoting tway

I'd care less that a bisexual boyfriend had male partners in the past - my concern would be that he'd one day decide he needed one in the present. But, as with any relationship, it's about honesty and commitment - and, like any relationship, you accept the risks of failing.

Never mind sexuality, what I don't understand is how people manage to eat mushrooms. What kind of messed up genetics and criss-crossed wiring do you have to have to put those things in your mouth and enjoy? Blech! Now that's just wrong.

You go T - sometimes you gotta take a risk and thats what its all about, no matter how well you think you know someone they surprise you - sometimes good, sometimes bad. Thats life.

Relationships male/female, female/female. male/male what bloody ever are frustrating and no matter whatever age you are leave you feeling mixed up too say the least. But lm with Q - its all love - it makes the world go around apparently!!