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Anti-Islam movie by Dutch politician. Opinions?

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241. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting wotthefiqh

Quoting wouterrr

They would like to see Europe to be Islamic

In my post after your honest (but fucking scary) quote I asked you the question 'Are there any citizens of Europe who want to Buddhify, Hindify or Rastafarify (my favourite ) the EU?

Your reply was something about linking American foreign policy to islamic mass-murder.

If you can't answer my question, just say so instead of avoiding it.

If you are unable to answer question 1, try question 2 -

Why would anyone move from Islam to the EU and want to turn it into the society/culture they just fled from?

I thought I answered your question and the answer is NO, the EU citizens don't want to be turned into anything whether it is islamic, hindu or rasta (did you read my post?). Fact is that religious people like to see everyone to be of their faith. Islamic people like to see other to be islamic. Christians like to see others to be Christian etc. All religions claim to have the truth and want to spread the word of the truth. And yes most fled from warzones but why do you link religion with an political unstabil situation? Don't you think terrorizing dictators appear around the world? Thirld world countries have problems but it is unfair to blame religion for it. Secondly linking american foreign policy with islamic terror is not unreasonable. What else would be the reason of this terror? US foreign policy is no better then "islamic" terror. And I say it again to you, if a foreign force invades your country would you be silently accept them? Would be silly don't you think wotfik?;)

[ Edit: Edited on 24-Mar-2009, at 13:28 by wouterrr ]

242. Posted by fuchsinrot (Budding Member 31 posts) 7y

non-quoting wothefick or whatever ..

I should've followed the proper quote system ... but guess what! there was nothing worth quoting.
your long post was quite an eye-sore, especially after finding nothing in it. your post seemed similar to the kind of egoistic, nonsensical posting that has been given rise by this so called "information age", and it only promotes the theory of humans getting more and more dumb.
silly comments, smiley icons, trying to be all smooth ... do u have some hidden insecurities?
first off, m not talking about australia, so stop trying to make everything about yourself.
-stop being so obsessed with the word islam
-correct your interpretation of the word "colonization" ...
-you may have seen big rallies of people promoting an apparent "dark-side" of islam, but considering how politically twisted islam has become, i wouldn't trust half the people part of that.
-sharia law = primitive ... that's your point of view. why does the so called "progressive west", or in your case, way off the planet ... try to impose their ethos on other cultures? get one thing right here though! i am against the overly modern west, and the distorted islam that the nutty scholars are presenting. both r extremes of a moderate path that should be taken. religion almost doesn't exist anymore, and we've constructed our own fake realities. the only problem i have is the misuse of the word islam by the extremists(islamic or not) in order to gain advantage.
-yes pakistani politics is in shambles, but pakistan alone is not responsible for where it is today! and, to repeat myself, I AM NOT TAKING SIDES OF ANYTHING. it's not easy to leave your country, no matter how bad it is. but i am here only for my education.
and you know what. before i came here, i considered myself rather open-minded. i don't wear a burqa or a headscarf even, i am not in approval of it. but eversince iv been here, the surroundings have made me more conservative, instead of just going wild and knowing my mom aint here so i can do whatever i want and wear whatever i want. its not an easy transition to move from one society to another. so get a bit down to earth, lose the attitude, and understand the psychology that is behind all this.

p.s. why exactly do you think america is bombing north-west pakistan, and why did it want an airbase in balochistan where we have developed the area around a great natural harbour? taliban? osama? terrorists?

243. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

Found this on (The English voice of the Netherlands' national news agency ANP)

THE HAGUE, 11/03/09 - The Supreme Court yesterday produced an important ruling in principle in favour of freedom of speech.
The highest court of the Netherlands acquitted a man of insulting Muslims although he stuck a poster in his window with the text: 'Stop the tumour that is called Islam'.

Party for Freedom (PVV) leader Wilders, meanwhile internationally known for his struggle against Islam, will be tried for
insulting Muslims as a group. The court that will handle his case will have to take yesterday's Supreme Court ruling into

Now some news from Radio Netherlands -

Published: Sunday 29 March 2009

The Freedom Party of populist right-wing (what a meaningless label in the context) leader Geert Wilders has
climbed again in the polls, this time to a record of 32 seats in the 150-seat parliament. The Freedom Party is in first place and is now four seats ahead of the Christian Democrats, the largest of the three parties in the governing coalition.
His ratings began to soar in February, when the British government refused to allow him to enter the country. Sixty percent of voters who describe themselves as right-wing say they will vote for Wilders' Freedom Party.

Eurodhimmis Erwacht?

244. Posted by fuchsinrot (Budding Member 31 posts) 7y

since when is ridiculing a religion ok under fredom of speech? and why is it so cool lately? if u do it, ur instantly famous.
i completely agree with the people being charged for ridiculing a religion, a race, or creed.
just like racism is a crime by law. one such incident happened in my school recently, one of antisemitism by a visiting-artist. why was his action dealt with like a criminal act? of course what he did was absolutely ridiculous and i did show my disgust for it. but under what you are saying .. "freedom of speech" ... he should've been left to act as he felt. especially because we are an art school. we strive for freedom of speech. but there always is a limit. ur actions must not hurt someone.
but the western ranting of freedom of speech is understandable, since they've turned even jesus into a tongue-sticking rock icon. if u dont want any limits, let others practice it. and stop bothering them for what they want. why force your ethos on other societies and systems? no one should do this. deal with everyone according to where they come from. u cant kiss and shake hands with muslim women normally. respect it. let it be. nobody tells u not to do it in your own circles.
this super-screwed-up-earth would be way better if we start respecting for a change, instead of constantly criticizing and bashing others for how they dont behave like us. isnt that completely totalitarian? trying to make everyone like one giant army of singularity?
as for wilders. as i think iv said before. i dont disagree with what hes doing. id probably do the same. nobody likes outsiders taking charge. imagine your neighbour walking in your house and telling your father that he'll be running his house now and according to his rules. its not nice. i completely agree his motivation for what hes doing. but his word selection is rather bad, politicized, and propagandist. even about not allowing the burqa or headscarf. thats not nice. if netherlands is a christian state, then in that event even a bikini should be banned as it is neither allowed by religion, nor is it a pro-libertarian symbol. and if netherlands does not declare itself as a religious state, then the burqa should not be a question at all.
dont spoil the name of islam under what so-called muslims do. these people come from everywhere with various cultural backgrounds. i am shocked how different i feel from a muslim from turkey or morocco for example. and hirsi ali complaining about losing her ({}) and how it is islam's fault is completely outrageous. it doesnt happen in pakistan. if it was an islamic act, it should happen everywhere. these people are culture and time stricken. dont blame islam. just turn your words.

245. Posted by Jimix (Inactive 15 posts) 7y

If we don’t have freedom of speech against religion then any legitimate argument that is brought up will be instantly struck down as heresy or blasphemy.

This happened countless times during the Middle Ages/Dark Ages (and still continues today) where mass murder was commonplace by the church for the “divine purity” of there religion, much like in the 1930’s/40’s when the Nazi party were in power committing murder for the sake of their regime.

“All religious belief is a function of non-rational faith. And faith, by its very definition, tends to be impervious to intellectual argument or academic criticism.”
Jon Krakauer
Under the Banner of Heaven

The first 30 minutes of this video gives an interesting argument on the beginnings of religion.
Zeitgeist: The Movie

P.S. This is not my sole source of information regarding religions.

246. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting Jimix

If we don’t have freedom of speech against religion then any legitimate argument that is brought up will be instantly struck down as heresy or blasphemy

Freedom of speech is very important. It is one of the characteristics of a free world. But freedom of speech has limits. The limit is there where you start insulting people. As a white guy I can start calling a black guy a "nigger". That is over the limit, because it insults the black guy. So you cross the line here. This is not freedom of speech!

Nowadays there is a tendency that we don't care about other peoples sentiments and emotions and culture. So we want to say everything we want because it is "freedom of speech".

247. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting Jimix

The first 30 minutes of this video gives an interesting argument on the beginnings of religion.
Zeitgeist: The Movie

P.S. This is not my sole source of information regarding religions.

I just partly watched the movie and it is interesting. Gives quite a lot of insight. Although I don't exactly understand the point you want to make by reffering to it.

248. Posted by fuchsinrot (Budding Member 31 posts) 7y

Quoting Jimix

If we don’t have freedom of speech against religion then any legitimate argument that is brought up will be instantly struck down as heresy or blasphemy.

Remember the fact that we are human, and perfection is not part of our gene. There will still be people out there to plunder the rights. People have been doing it in history, and as you've mentioned it yourself about the Nazi's. But according to what the west is doing, it is trying to portray a fake image of the east thereby trying to acquire some personal interest. MAn's basic lust is for power. And that is also showcased in history. If someone says that America is really doing all that it is doing for the sake of humanity, thats a complete bull. Right and wrong have become, and have been so relative that it has been the sole reason for war. But if we only hold back our dirty intentions of power, ego, and lust!

Quoting Jimix

“All religious belief is a function of non-rational faith. And faith, by its very definition, tends to be impervious to intellectual argument or academic criticism.”
Jon Krakauer
Under the Banner of Heaven

I can believer this under the judo-christian theology because you people aren't allowed to question the deeper sides of religion by the church/god. non-rational is not a term of islamic belief.

249. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

From 01/07/2008 -

A Jordanian prosecutor charged far-right Dutch MP Geert Wilders on Tuesday with blasphemy and violation of publishing laws over his film judged anti-Islamic.
Jordan's publishing laws ban insults against Islam and religions.
The charges also include defamation and violation of online publishing laws, according to Tarek Hawamdeh, a lawyer for some 30 Jordanian media outlets which filed an official complaint earlier this month seeking court action against Wilders.
Wilders's 17-minute film "Fitna" ("discord" in Arabic), which links the Muslim holy book, the Quran, with terror attacks, has sparked uproar in Muslim countries.
"Punishment could be up to three years in jail. Wilders has been summoned to appear before the court. He will be given 15 days to comply, otherwise, an arrest warrant might be issued through the Interpol," Hawamdeh told AFP.

From Human Rights Watch 2008 -

Jordanian courts continue to issue lenient verdicts for "honor killings" perpetrated by family members against women and girls they suspect of "immoral" behavior. These killings make up the majority of female murders in Jordan. In October a resident of Amman confessed to killing his unmarried niece whom he suspected of being involved in an "illicit affair." By November 2008, 16 women had been killed in Jordan under the guise of "family honor."

If I understand this correctly, you can slit your daughter's/sister's throat to regain family honor and get less time in the slammer than if you make a short film exposing the Koranic basis of jihadist mass-murder.

Not all cultures share the same values and not all cultural values deserve respect.

Still waiting for my Jordanian arrest warrant

250. Posted by fuchsinrot (Budding Member 31 posts) 7y

Quoting wotthefiqh

Not all cultures share the same values and not all cultural values deserve respect.

true. to someone else, it could be ur culture worth the disrespect. and in this post of yours, u atleast say out the word culture instead of islam. and killing women whether in the name of honor-killing, or in the name of drunk-from-last-night's-party, is still killing. honor-killing is a cultural thing, as uv mentioned urself, and the way killing happens in your cultures is a social consequence. there are bigger crime rates still in non-muslim countries than in the muslim ones. pedophilia news still erupts on western local news channel, instead of in a muslim household. more women are raped in the non-muslim world. prostitution is higher in the non-muslim world. so all the numbers combined, women are more at risk in a non-muslim country.
the one news you get hold of from a muslim land, u flock around it like vultures and bid upon its price on media!

and honestly, u only speak. u dont bother reading. u don't even make the fake effort of trying to understand what the others are saying. so since u don't even want to know, what's your reason to debate anyways? it's a forum as far as i remember, not a speech-zone; u need to interact. all your posts are about horrid stories u collect. ever tried looking at the positive? but of course. u dont see/find any positive. google has all of a sudden become insufficient, or perhaps australia's internet is already in the trap of censorship. walking the footsteps of china eh?

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