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Anti-Islam movie by Dutch politician. Opinions?

Travel Forums Off Topic Anti-Islam movie by Dutch politician. Opinions?

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281. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 7y

It's an interesting topic and I think everyone above has laid it out already; This guy is a hypocritical bigot.

282. Posted by Buzzcock (Full Member 178 posts) 7y

Quoting Brendan

It's an interesting topic and I think everyone above has laid it out already; This guy is a hypocritical bigot.

I was in the Netherlands the week that Pim Fortuyn was shot. He was economically right-wing in that he was an ex-Marxist who had become a Thatcherite, however his views on immigration were perfectly rational in that he saw Islam as a threat the Netherlands' secular and liberal traditions, which it is. The other aspect of course, as I have mentioned above is population density. As the man said, Holland is full, just like England.

I await some Canuck, Yank, Aussie or Kiwi telling us that we who live in overcrowded countries with high dependencies on food and fuel imports should welcome further immigration. I mean there are 30 million people living in Canada - wowww - the second largest country on earth.

283. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 7y

Quoting Buzzcock

Quoting Brendan

It's an interesting topic and I think everyone above has laid it out already; This guy is a hypocritical bigot.

I was in the Netherlands the week that Pim Fortuyn was shot. He was economically right-wing in that he was an ex-Marxist who had become a Thatcherite, however his views on immigration were perfectly rational in that he saw Islam as a threat the Netherlands' secular and liberal traditions, which it is. The other aspect of course, as I have mentioned above is population density. As the man said, Holland is full, just like England.

I await some Canuck, Yank, Aussie or Kiwi telling us that we who live in overcrowded countries with high dependencies on food and fuel imports should welcome further immigration. I mean there are 30 million people living in Canada - wowww - the second largest country on earth.

Guess what? A democracy means you accept (aka put up with) opinions, cultures, religions, and decisions not your own. It's not always pretty; sometimes it's downright painful. But to be liberal is to accept ALL differing opinions. Else you're not a democracy.

And Canada's had its own share of anti-Islam sentiment. Take a look at Hérouxville.

AND Canada has more like 37 million people living in a country where 3/4 of the land is uninhabitable. So you're all welcome to immigrate--and schlep up to Nunavut.

284. Posted by arif_kool (Travel Guru 1757 posts) 7y

Quoting tway

And Canada's had its own share of anti-Islam sentiment. Take a look at Hérouxville.

The code approved by the municipal council of Herouxville was formulated to discourage all types of immigrants, not only Muslims. Some of the measures which were approved to be prohibited like wearing a veil or punishment in the form of stoning do find occurance among Muslims, while many others like 'carrying a weapon to school', 'female genital cutting' are not sanctioned in Islam. Some of the other controversial measures were protested by both Islamic and Jewish groups.

Female Genital cutting is something which predates both Islam and Christianity and is practised in many parts of Asia and Africa. With successive immigration, this tradition was carried to parts of Europe and American continent. None of the religions, Islam, Christianity or Judaism sanctions this procedure. More information about Female Genital cutting can be found here

[ Edit: Edited on 10-Aug-2009, at 23:59 by arif_kool ]

285. Posted by eroltoksoy (Full Member 173 posts) 7y

Quoting Buzzcock

Migration is primarily a spatial not a racial issue, never mind a 'cultural one. In a country with as high a population density as the Netherlands has, it is both rational and sensible to oppose any further immigration regardless of whether the immigrants come from former colonies or not. It is ecologically irresponsible to encourage any more people to settle in so small a country, which is heavily dependent on imports of food a fuel.

Incidentally England with a population of over fifty million people and a land mass of fifty thousand square miles now has a higher population density than the Netherlands, with the island of 'Great' Britain having a higher population density than Germany. According to this article Britain will overtake Germany in terms of total population by 2060. But then again unscrupulous employers and slum landlords will welcome the cheap labour and extra tenants.


  1. An immigration ban of five years for immigrants from non-western countries. Foreign residents no longer shall have the right to vote in municipal elections.

this statement of wilders has nothig to do with agricultural concerns, population density or global warming etc. this is %100 racist. if he said an immigration ban of 100 years for everyone it would sound more rational.

286. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

As far as I am aware, I can metamorphose from being caucasian to being a member of the moslem race simply by reciting 'I witness that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah'.
If it were that easy to change races, I would have recited 'I witness that there is no god but Soul, and James Brown is the messenger of Soul' when I was fifteen years old.
I would have been the coolest dude in high school, not just a teenage dirtbag.

287. Posted by Buzzcock (Full Member 178 posts) 7y

Quoting eroltoksoy

# An immigration ban of five years for immigrants from non-western countries. Foreign residents no longer shall have the right to vote in municipal elections.

this statement of wilders has nothig to do with agricultural concerns, population density or global warming etc. this is %100 racist. if he said an immigration ban of 100 years for everyone it would sound more rational.

It depends what you define as 'non-western'. Personally I am favour of a total ban on immigration to the UK from outside the European Union, regardless of religion, ethnicity or socio-economic background. Thus white middle-class North Americans or Antipodeans would receive no favourable treatment over black Africans. This policy would also clamp down on visa scams (this website's speciality) and bogus/arranged marriages.

From within the European Union, far stricter criteria should be applied to linguistic skills. Fluency in English, Welsh or Gaelic should be a pre-requisite for all paid employment in the UK. As in the Netherlands, there should be a minimum term of residency in the country (of say 10 years) before eligibility for local authority housing is considered; there should also be minimum term of paid taxable employment (of say 2 years) before eligibility for any state benefits.

As this thread is about the Netherlands, then fluency in Dutch should be required for all jobs there (which would piss off a lot of the Anglos, but tough) including for preachers. The Dutch have every right to protect their language and their culture. If you think that that is 'racist' then that is your problem.

With regard to Wilders' views on the EU, eroltoksoy, with due respect you do not live in the EU, you don't know how it has taken legal rights away from elected national parliaments. Of course its undemocratic powers should be reduced, by reducing the influence of the European Parliament and giving those powers back to national parliaments, whilst scrapping altogether the more powerful unelected Commission. Further expansion should not even be considered as the EU is way too large and cumbersome already.

If Turkey joins the EU then I can tell you straight off that the UK will be the first to leave, if France and the Netherlands don't beat us to it. We'll reclaim the democratic parliament(s) we used to have, reclaim our borders and we'll protect our limited resources (oil, gas and fishing rights) for ourselves. Do you realise that on the subject of 'Europe' the UK has only twice had a national referendum on the matter, in 1973 and 1975, meaning that no-one under the age of 52 has ever had a vote on this evolving superstate?

Incidentally, the vast majority of economic migrants are not refugees by any stretch of the imagination; if they were they would claim asylum in the first EU member state they arrive in. They don't of course because they head for Sangatte to try and enter the UK. Re voting eligibility, of course foreign residents shouldn't have the right to vote. As a British citizen, if I were resident in Turkey or Canada I would not expect to be entitled to any voting rights. If I were resident in another EU member state I would expect the same voting rights as other EU nationals have here.

Re tway's point about 3/4 of Canada being uninhabitable, that still leaves a habitable land area far greater than that of 'Great' Britain, but with a much lower level of population - way to go to catch us up. You can fit Britain into British Columbia at least twice over.

[ Edit: Edited on 12-Aug-2009, at 13:24 by Buzzcock ]

288. Posted by eroltoksoy (Full Member 173 posts) 7y

Quoting Buzzcock

Quoting eroltoksoy

# An immigration ban of five years for immigrants from non-western countries. Foreign residents no longer shall have the right to vote in municipal elections.

this statement of wilders has nothig to do with agricultural concerns, population density or global warming etc. this is %100 racist. if he said an immigration ban of 100 years for everyone it would sound more rational.

It depends what you define as 'non-western'. Personally I am favour of a total ban on immigration to the UK from outside the European Union, regardless of religion, ethnicity or socio-economic background. Thus white middle-class North Americans or Antipodeans would receive no favourable treatment over black Africans. This policy would also clamp down on visa scams (this website's speciality) and bogus/arranged marriages.

From within the European Union, far stricter criteria should be applied to linguistic skills. Fluency in English, Welsh or Gaelic should be a pre-requisite for all paid employment in the UK. As in the Netherlands, there should be a minimum term of residency in the country (of say 10 years) before eligibility for local authority housing is considered; there should also be minimum term of paid taxable employment (of say 2 years) before eligibility for any state benefits.

As this thread is about the Netherlands, then fluency in Dutch should be required for all jobs there (which would piss off a lot of the Anglos, but tough) including for preachers. The Dutch have every right to protect their language and their culture. If you think that that is 'racist' then that is your problem.

With regard to Wilders' views on the EU, eroltoksoy, with due respect you do not live in the EU, you don't know how it has taken legal rights away from elected national parliaments. Of course its undemocratic powers should be reduced, by reducing the influence of the European Parliament and giving those powers back to national parliaments, whilst scrapping altogether the more powerful unelected Commission. Further expansion should not even be considered as the EU is way too large and cumbersome already.

If Turkey joins the EU then I can tell you straight off that the UK will be the first to leave, if France and the Netherlands don't beat us to it. We'll reclaim the democratic parliament(s) we used to have, reclaim our borders and we'll protect our limited resources (oil, gas and fishing rights) for ourselves. Do you realise that on the subject of 'Europe' the UK has only twice had a national referendum on the matter, in 1973 and 1975, meaning that no-one under the age of 52 has ever had a vote on this evolving superstate?

Incidentally, the vast majority of economic migrants are not refugees by any stretch of the imagination; if they were they would claim asylum in the first EU member state they arrive in. They don't of course because they head for Sangatte to try and enter the UK. Re voting eligibility, of course foreign residents shouldn't have the right to vote. As a British citizen, if I were resident in Turkey or Canada I would not expect to be entitled to any voting rights. If I were resident in another EU member state I would expect the same voting rights as other EU nationals have here.

Re tway's point about 3/4 of Canada being uninhabitable, that still leaves a habitable land area far greater than that of 'Great' Britain, but with a much lower level of population - way to go to catch us up. You can fit Britain into British Columbia at least twice over.

I think it depends on how Wilders define non-western, not me. And I think he means western from Turkey and Russia. So it is racial as well as geographical.

By the way, I want to ask a question to you.You remarked that:

If Turkey joins the EU then I can tell you straight off that the UK will be the first to leave, if France and the Netherlands don't beat us to it.

What do you think will happen when Turkey joins EU?

Do you guys predict a massive immigration campaign form Turkey?

289. Posted by Buzzcock (Full Member 178 posts) 7y

Quoting eroltoksoy

What do you think will happen when Turkey joins EU?

Do you guys predict a massive immigration campaign form Turkey?

If Turkey joins the EU, then it will either collapse under its own weight, or the western countries which subsidise it will individually leave becoming independent again, like Norway has been all along. The rump of the EU will then collapse in a sea of debt, added to by having to subsidise Turkey. It would be great to see the gravy train grind to a halt and the Eurocrats and Kommissars all made redundant.

The western countries may possibly form a free-trade association such as the European Economic Community, which the United Kingdom joined in 1973, used to be; or we could join the existing European Free Trade Association of which Norway is still a member. Either way the UK would be 57 billion Euros a year better off and we won't have to live with the EU paying employers to close down factories in the UK to relocate to eastern countries.

290. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 7y

Quoting Buzzcock

...visa scams (this website's speciality)...

I don't mean to interrupt this particular discussion as it's been civil and interesting. But, from a Moderator's point of view, I am asking for clarification regarding the above text. (And, just that text.) Thanks in advance.

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