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Anti-Islam movie by Dutch politician. Opinions?

Travel Forums Off Topic Anti-Islam movie by Dutch politician. Opinions?

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291. Posted by Buzzcock (Full Member 178 posts) 7y

Quoting Isadora

Quoting Buzzcock

...visa scams (this website's speciality)...

I don't mean to interrupt this particular discussion as it's been civil and interesting. But, from a Moderator's point of view, I am asking for clarification regarding the above text. (And, just that text.) Thanks in advance.

What do you think the purpose of this thread is? It's got bugger all to do with tourism.

292. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 7y

Quoting Buzzcock

Quoting Isadora

Quoting Buzzcock

...visa scams (this website's speciality)...

I don't mean to interrupt this particular discussion as it's been civil and interesting. But, from a Moderator's point of view, I am asking for clarification regarding the above text. (And, just that text.) Thanks in advance.

What do you think the purpose of this thread is? It's got bugger all to do with tourism.

I asked for clarification and got it. I do not moderate Europe, but do moderate OT, so hence my asking. That is one thread so I find it hard to accept the "this website's speciality" comment. I'm sure there may be similar threads that have been posted over time but on a whole, "speciality" does not fit. Just my opinion. Thank you for the clarification.

293. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

GEERT IS RACIST

The sole purpose of designating islam as a 'race' is to teflon-coat it from any and all criticism while it is open-slather for voicing contempt and hatred of western democratic society (US in particular).
I don't subscribe to cultural suicide.

294. Posted by eroltoksoy (Full Member 173 posts) 7y

Quoting wotthefiqh

GEERT IS RACIST

The sole purpose of designating islam as a 'race' is to teflon-coat it from any and all criticism while it is open-slather for voicing contempt and hatred of western democratic society (US in particular).
I don't subscribe to cultural suicide.

why did you stuck with it? since noone calls islam as a race and my accusation against geert depends on his ideas about immigration, not only the movie fitna.

295. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

GEERT IS FASCIST

The first victim of Fascism is always 'freedom of speech', so the only fascist behaviour in this saga is being perpetrated by the acolytes of totalitarian PCness who will throw the 'fascist' epithet at anyone who doesn't adhere to their vacuous ideology.
All that self-righteous indignation and delusions of moral superiority.

296. Posted by eroltoksoy (Full Member 173 posts) 7y

Quoting wotthefiqh

GEERT IS FASCIST

The first victim of Fascism is always 'freedom of speech', so the only fascist behaviour in this saga is being perpetrated by the acolytes of totalitarian PCness who will throw the 'fascist' epithet at anyone who doesn't adhere to their vacuous ideology.
All that self-righteous indignation and delusions of moral superiority.

so you say geerts opinion about islam, muslims and all other non-western, non -europeans are welcommed by freedom of speech? what about gobbel's ideas on jews ? if u hate and kill someone you bacome fascist and racist, but when you only hate it is freedom of speech ?

297. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

Found these four definitions of 'race' on the net and tried to figure out where islam would fit -

1.Population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
NO

2.A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution.
No.
The conservative and contiguous islamic lands from Rabat to Rawalpindi were conquered by the sword while islam was brought to Malaysia and Indonesia by traders.

3.A genealogical line; a lineage.
NO

4.Humans considered as a group.
YES
The thread which binds all moslems together are the five duties (pillars of islam) incumbent on every muslim.
These five duties are Shahada (Profession of Faith), Salah (prayers), Zakah (Giving of Alms), Saum (Fasting during Ramadan) and Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca).
This is the only commonality as far as I can tell which would constitute making islam a group.

If islam then fits into definition 4, surely the twelve steps of Alcoholics Anonymous meet the same 'group' criteria.
Therefore recovering alcoholics deserve the same racial respect as moslems.

298. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 6y

If you accept the spurious concept that islam is a 'race' then it's ideology, legal framework and behaviour need to be examined in a racial context.

1) A crucial distinction made in Islamic theology is that between dar al-harb and dar al-islam. Dar al-harb (territory of war or chaos) is the name for the regions where Islam does not dominate while dar al-islam (territory of peace) is the name for those territories where Islam does dominate.
Certainly discriminatory by description (war -v- peace) and racist by historical imperialism

2) The 1,400 year old and on-going concept of jihad as holy war against non-moslems now becomes a race war

3) sharia law, which discriminates against non-moslems (and women of course), is racist and can be compared to the 1936 Nuremberg Laws of Nazi Germany

4) An islamic state ruled by islamic law/cultural values is a racist state

5) in islam, only non-moslems can be slaves, slavery is advocated in islamic theology and is racist

6) 'infidel' and 'kafir' are racial derogatory terms

7) A central belief of islam is that it is God's perfection in all spheres (social, cultural, economic and political) which is racial supremacy

8) The concept of so-called western corruption (e.g. civil law, human rights, democratic principles) infecting islam is a manifestation of racial purity and can be compared to the aryan racial purity of Nazism

9) the sharia sentence for homosexuality is death (murder), so if gays can be classed as a race (see previous post), this primitive law is a call for racial genocide

By the way, my post equating recovering alcoholics as racial equals with moslems needs expansion.
Recovering alkies have been through the full gamut of blaming everyone else for their addiction and have finally looked hard in the mirror and realised that the problem is theirs and theirs alone.
islam hasn't reached that stage (and probably never will) and continues to blame zionism, crusaderism, zionist-crusader conspiracies, imperialism, colonialism, US hegemonism and probably even priapism for it's abject failure to advance past the 16th (or even 7th ) century and a mind-set rooted (in the full Australian meaning) in the Middle Ages.

299. Posted by arif_kool (Travel Guru 1757 posts) 6y

People seem to have lost interest in ur posts and it is a pity seeing you reviving a dying thread and replying to your own posts

Anyways coming back to your last post, it is obvious that u twist words to drive home ur point of view. Just for example take the first point that u mentioned.

Dar al harb and dar al islam simply means:

That is if a Muslim is safe and secure and can practise his religion freely, in the place he lives, then the place is Dar Islam, and if not, then it is Dar al-Harb (Source: Wikipedia). It is as simple as that, but u point to something else.

300. Posted by beerman (Respected Member 1631 posts) 6y

arif, I'm not picking on you, but what I think that wotthefiq is trying to get across (and I'm not trying to put words in his mouth - just my interpretation) is that westerners have some justifiably serious issues with portions of Islam that are considered, by most people in the world, to be horrifically barbaric and archaic. Obviously not all Muslims are the same, nor are all Christians, all Buddhists, Jews, etc. - no one is saying they are. There just doesn't seem to be enough outrage from the liberal and moderate Muslims at what the right wing Muslims are proclaiming, which makes westerners a little suspicious of the idealism of the liberals and moderates.

I think a lot of westerners are tired of being grouped together as a single entity. That shoe can be placed on the other foot - are we to group all Indians together? For example, and I apologize if this offends you arif (offense is not intended), this article by the BBC: Village Witches Beaten in India

This is a horrid incident, I think everyone can agree. But there are similar activities occurring in the Muslim world (note that the "witches" were Muslim widows). This sort of barbarism ought to have disappeared centuries ago (even more frightening that women were arrested for taking part in the beatings). Too many people in the Muslim world seem to be taking the Koran too literally - like the Bible, it was written a very long time ago, and this being the 21st century, I suspect that carrying on Holy Jihad should disappear along with beating witches or not eating at the same table in a restaurant as an "infidel" because infidels are unclean.

One of the more disturbing views on all of this, and getting back to Geert Wilders, is that large groups of Muslims call out for Death to Non-Muslims, and yet you never hear from Muslims who disagree with that stance. Would liberal and moderate Muslims really want to live under Sharia Law? Who would be considered acceptable? Sunni, Shi'a, Sufi? Or would they all start killing each other (as is happening right this minute) because their Prophet is the one true Prophet?

Calling for Death to Anything doesn't present a particularly strong case for Islam being peaceful, and we westerners hear no Muslim voices saying it is wrong. That would scare anybody.

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