Skip Navigation

Anti-Islam movie by Dutch politician. Opinions?

Travel Forums Off Topic Anti-Islam movie by Dutch politician. Opinions?

Page 1 ...

Last Post

311. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 6y

Quoting beerman

Thank you for lumping all Americans into the same mold....apparently, we're all the same......lust for vengeance, oil, blood. That's sarcasm. All Americans are sarcastic too. You're not getting the point wouterrr. There have been massive protests against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan here. I have yet to see one protest anywhere against suicide bombers killing people. So please get off your moral high horse. You asked for peoples opinions, and people are giving you their opinions. Unless we should be bringing up the history of Dutch Colonialism around the world......

There are protests of Americans against the war but America is still invading in the middle-east region. Let me be clear. I am not against America, I am against the American foreign policies. Oh yeah Dutch colonialism...haha. Don't think I am proud of that.

312. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 6y

Quoting beerman

I have yet to see one protest anywhere against suicide bombers killing people.

You won't see everything on the western media. There where a lot of demonstrations of Pakistani against the Taliban, now why is that not broadcasted? The world is not black and white but there is a clear agressor in world politics and that is the USA (politics and not its citizens, they just seem to be kept ignorant by its media).

[ Edit: Edited on 21-Oct-2009, at 12:48 by wouterrr ]

313. Posted by beerman (Respected Member 1631 posts) 6y

Quoting wouterrr

[quote=beerman]
I'm not altogether certain that the Koran tells people to strap high explosives to their bodies, walk into a crowded school or market, and detonate the explosives.[quote]

I was surprised to find out that it is not allowed for muslims to commit suicide. Then why to they detonate themselves and kill themselves and a lot of innocent people (the Qur'an says somewhere, "if you kill one man, you kill entire mankind")? Is there maybe another reason than religion? Why would a muslim say sorry for something he has nothing to do with? Do you consider a member of the klu klux clan a Christian? And would a normal Christian has to say sorry for him too? Isn't that ridiculous?

Why were you surprised...most religions don't allow suicide. And though the Koran doesn't allow for suicide, it apparently does allow for the subjugation and killing of women. Moderate Muslims must consider this a bit odd in this century, much like most Christians find members of the KKK an oddity. I find the KKK to be an absurd concept, just as I consider suicide bombers killing in the name of Allah to be an absurdity.

Too many people are using violence in the name of religion....and it is an absurd concept. What is it that you're not getting? Of course these suicide bombers are not following the tenets of Islam, no more than Christians who bomb abortion clinics are following Christianity.

Now back to Wilders - yes, he's extreme, but is it really necessary for a number of right wing Muslims to be calling for his death? Is there the concept of free speech in the Netherlands? If so, is it tempered with the idea that you can say what you wish as long as it doesn't bring harm to some one or incite harm? America has that, and we defend that right. Has the Netherlands defended Wilders' right to speak, regardless of whether he makes sense? I don't recall him saying that Muslims in the Netherlands should be killed.

314. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 6y

Quoting beerman

Quoting wouterrr

[quote=beerman]
I'm not altogether certain that the Koran tells people to strap high explosives to their bodies, walk into a crowded school or market, and detonate the explosives.[quote]

I was surprised to find out that it is not allowed for muslims to commit suicide. Then why to they detonate themselves and kill themselves and a lot of innocent people (the Qur'an says somewhere, "if you kill one man, you kill entire mankind")? Is there maybe another reason than religion? Why would a muslim say sorry for something he has nothing to do with? Do you consider a member of the klu klux clan a Christian? And would a normal Christian has to say sorry for him too? Isn't that ridiculous?

Why were you surprised...most religions don't allow suicide. And though the Koran doesn't allow for suicide, it apparently does allow for the subjugation and killing of women. Moderate Muslims must consider this a bit odd in this century, much like most Christians find members of the KKK an oddity. I find the KKK to be an absurd concept, just as I consider suicide bombers killing in the name of Allah to be an absurdity.

Too many people are using violence in the name of religion....and it is an absurd concept. What is it that you're not getting? Of course these suicide bombers are not following the tenets of Islam, no more than Christians who bomb abortion clinics are following Christianity.

Now back to Wilders - yes, he's extreme, but is it really necessary for a number of right wing Muslims to be calling for his death? Is there the concept of free speech in the Netherlands? If so, is it tempered with the idea that you can say what you wish as long as it doesn't bring harm to some one or incite harm? America has that, and we defend that right. Has the Netherlands defended Wilders' right to speak, regardless of whether he makes sense? I don't recall him saying that Muslims in the Netherlands should be killed.

1. No, Islam does not allow anyone to kill women. And this is actually a fact. The western media and anti-islam propogandists, have had enough fun with this lie to focus the attention to saving these "poor" women. This topic is such a cliche. I have been to many Muslim countries, and i am living between Muslims in Rotterdam, I see what scarved women in rotterdam are like (nothing like oppressed women), and my perception of what Muslim women are, and how they are treated, is completely different than from those who just see them from a distance.

2. Fighting in the name of God/Allah is a cheap way of brainwashing oneself into believing that you are doing the right thing. According to the Qur'an, fighting in the name of God has pretty straight-forward and clear requirements, which none of "men-of-(Christian/Muslim)God" are meeting.

3. The bombings of yesterday in the Islamic University in Islamabad are proof that these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam. Even worse, the attack was in the Sharia faculty of the university, now, what muslim wants to bring that down to rubble? Firing around children's schools, when it is quite clear in the Qur'an that in the event of a war, do not harm women, children, elderly and plantation (crops etc.)

4. Those who you "expect" an apology/demonstrations from, are victims themselves! They demonstrate only for their right to live, not for the world to see that they are with them! Their issues are far more complex and personal for them to give any importance as to what the West thinks of what they should do. Do you really think they care if they are giving out the "correct" message to the world, when their basic issue is to keep going to school, safely!

315. Posted by arif_kool (Travel Guru 1757 posts) 6y

Ohh, much water has flown in this thread since i went to bed!!:)
There used to be a healthy discussion in this thread, but of late, ever since wotthefig started to pass derogratory and unacceptable remarks on Islam as a religion, the very essence of a civilised and healthy discussion was lost. I am happy that people on TP were quick to understand this and started losing interest in this thread. I hope u remember what happened to @Kombizz@, he was quietly ignored and at least he never returned back with his stuff. The same happened to this thread, but self-replying to one's post:) kept it alive and always returned to the top page of the "Off Topic" forum.

Quoting beerman

arif, I'm not picking on you, but what I think that wotthefiq is trying to get across (and I'm not trying to put words in his mouth - just my interpretation) is that westerners have some justifiably serious issues with portions of Islam that are considered, by most people in the world, to be horrifically barbaric and archaic. Obviously not all Muslims are the same, nor are all Christians, all Buddhists, Jews, etc. - no one is saying they are. There just doesn't seem to be enough outrage from the liberal and moderate Muslims at what the right wing Muslims are proclaiming, which makes westerners a little suspicious of the idealism of the liberals and moderates.

Beerman, i am happy that u have replied with an open mind ready to listen and take the other point of view, unlike the previous poster !! I agree with u, that there has been problems in the Muslim world, but Islam is not to be squarely blamed for that. The people in general are not much interested in such complex issues. It is a handful of misguided people who mis-interpret and take the literal translation of many of the Quranic verses, to drive their point of view. I have travelled to some of the Middle-East countries and i have seen that there is a general sense of anger for the Americans(read American policies). This sense of anger is exploited to the hilt by the fundamentalists and they vent their ire by indulging in mindless killings and bombings.
For example, America propped up Taliban to fight the USSR backed Najib government in Afghanistan, but it later boomeranged on them. Needless meddling in middle-eastern affairs for geo-political interest has also further destabilised the region. The WMD(weapons of mass destruction), the very basis for invading Iraq, has never been found till date. There is a general anger among the people, President Obama has made a positive beginning by promising to build a relationship based on mutual respect and faith. Lets hope for the best !!
Changes are occuring in the Muslim world, which are to be welcomed. Al_Azhar, university of Cairo, one of the oldest in the world, has recently advocated the ban of hijab(Burqa) on its campus. A female Kuwaiti member of PArliament has refused to wear the veil !! These are welcome changes !!! Western media should try to delink terrorism from Islam, as it is quite clear that they have no religion, the recent bombing in pakistan and the bombing of a mosque in India is an example

316. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 6y

One of the most concise and accurate opinions I've ever read.

Two simple paragraphs which explain the increasing problem the West is facing, Europe in particular.

Non-muslim immigrants do not carry with them in their mental baggage the
ideology of Islam, which makes it's adherents permanent opponents of the
legal and political institutions, and social/cultural arrangements and
understandings, of Europe and all other advanced Western societies.

People who flee the political, economic, social, intellectual and moral
failures of Muslim societies still come with Islam for they fail to
recognize that it is Islam that explains those political, economic,
social, intellectual and moral failures
.

317. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 6y

Quoting arif_kool

There used to be a healthy discussion in this thread, but of late, ever since wotthefig started to pass derogratory and unacceptable remarks on Islam as a religion

derogatory - adjective meaning 'detracting' or 'injurious'.

Case 1
I used logic (at least I think I did) in post# 286 to conclude that islam is discriminatory towards non-moslems, and is rooted in the mind-set of the middle ages.

Case 2
Somali islamists used sharia law and stoned a man to death after finding him guilty of adultery http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8347216.stm
His pregnant girlfriend will be killed after she gives birth.

Quantify the degree of injury in cases 1 and 2.

318. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 6y

Quoting wotthefiqh

Quoting arif_kool

There used to be a healthy discussion in this thread, but of late, ever since wotthefig started to pass derogratory and unacceptable remarks on Islam as a religion

derogatory - adjective meaning 'detracting' or 'injurious'.

Case 1
I used logic (at least I think I did) in post# 286 to conclude that islam is discriminatory towards non-moslems, and is rooted in the mind-set of the middle ages.

Case 2
Somali islamists used sharia law and stoned a man to death after finding him guilty of adultery http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8347216.stm
His pregnant girlfriend will be killed after she gives birth.

Quantify the degree of injury in cases 1 and 2.

It is better to ignorify than to quantify?

arif,

The term 'healthy discussion' depends on how one defines 'discussion' and 'healthy'.

I don't think either of these terms apply when -

a) wouterr responds to my posts with adhesive-free islamist labels like 'crusader' (my favourite )

AND

b ) you respond with 'why do I keep alive a dead thread' (better than a dead Dutch politician ) and the stock-standard cry 'how can you hurt moslem feelings by expressing unacceptable remarks on Islam'.

Any notion that I stifle my free speech in deference to muslim sensibilities/intimidation will be treated with the respect it so richly deserves, for to do so would betray the millions who fought and died to bring me that right.

Explanatory, not inflammatory.

319. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 6y

I should have done more research before quantifying the similarities between alcoholism and Islam.
The answer was there all along - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKs7oi_-NUo

320. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 6y

The trial of Geert Wilders, accused of discrimination and inciting hatred against islam, will begin in Amsterdam tomorrow, January 20th.

Can the following be true

It is irrelevant whether Wilder’s witnesses might prove Wilders’ observations to be correct”, the ‘Openbaar Ministerie (Netherlands Ministry Of Justice)’ stated, “what’s relevant is that his observations are illegal”.

One of Geert's observations is 'The more islam, the less Freedom'.

The truth shall set you free

Guilty verdict = celebrations in the streets (in moslem countries as well - Pakistan/Jordan/Iran, etc)
Acquittal = demonstrations in the streets (in moslem countries as well - Pakistan/Jordan/Iran,etc)

IF GUILTY -
Come to Australia and claim political asylum, the reason being that you will be persecuted for exercising your democratic right to free speech if returned to Europe.

IF ACQUITTED -
Stay away from all Dutch embassies (or any other western embassies for that matter) in the moslem world.

Geert Wilders wins whatever the verdict.

Page 1 ...

Last Post

This thread is closed