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Travel plans during the recession?

Travel Forums General Talk Travel plans during the recession?


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21. Posted by tleb (Full Member 117 posts) 7y

But the media only provides what we want.
Just like all other service and product providers, if we wouldn't pay for it or flock to pay attention to it, they wouldn't do what they do.

In a mostly uncensored society the style and content of the media is a direct reflection of certain strong aspects of the psyche of the mass consumer.

22. Posted by kkool (Budding Member 34 posts) 7y

Quoting tleb

Quoting kkool

Quoting tleb

The most frustrating thing about this "recession" is that it is based almost solely on our global financial system.

There is no particular shortage of any resources over the past 10 years. No shortage of work force. No shortage of an individuals desires for things or experiences.


I heard that canada is ''almost immune'' to the crisis as your finacial system isn't as corrupt and greedy like those in US and UK.

Or am I mistaken?

I have heard our banking system is offering us a buffer, but we are by no means immune. Nationwide there are huge lay-offs happening.

From my own personal experience in my home province, the drop in the price of oil has hugely affected everything. For many years our provincial government was running a surplus budget. So much so that they had issued a couple cheques to every Albertan for (I think) $350.00 each, while they also managed to sock away like 17-20 billion in the "heritage fund" after paying off our portion of the national debt and all provincial debts.

In just a few short months the government is now running a deficit, and the lay-offs are happening by the hundreds.

Sorry. I am babbling, I think it's the cold medication.

Short answer: It might be helping, but it doesn't feel like it to alot of people. But experiences are relative.

Hmm... i agree. due to the huge fall in the price of all and related energies.

Well we hope the markets fully correct themselves so we can at least see some stability to all the crisis about.

I've heard of a new term here in London called ''stay-cation''; taken leisurely holidays in one's home!

23. Posted by kkool (Budding Member 34 posts) 7y

Quoting tleb

But the media only provides what we want.
Just like all other service and product providers, if we wouldn't pay for it or flock to pay attention to it, they wouldn't do what they do.

In a mostly uncensored society the style and content of the media is a direct reflection of certain strong aspects of the psyche of the mass consumer.

Right again tleb!

The media provides us with what we want.

As they say; the news business is good business.

24. Posted by Calcruzer (Moderator 1992 posts) 7y

Maybe the media tries to provide us with "what we want"--but more often than not, their so-called "experts" are nothing but "talking heads" that have no idea what they are talking about.

Let me give you three examples:

(1) Back in November, CNN ran a program called IOUSA--(IOU USA)--where they talked about how the US GOVERNMENT had been running continuing deficits and using our Social Security funds to cover current bills. That's fine--but then they brought on their so-called "experts"--who suggested that the only solution to the problem was for INDIVIDUALS to cut back on their expenditures and reduce their outstanding debt. What stupidity! Naturally, as people took their advice, businesses sold less, resulting in less government revenues, and the economy tanked--(yes, this was only one reason for why they did this--but I won't go into the other reasons--stock market, derivatives, housing market--here). Anyway, with less revenues, while still trying to keep the economy going, the state and local governments are going broke, and the federal government needed to put in its gigantic stimulus package--now resulting in a $1.5 trillion deficit (almost twice the old record).

(2) One of the recent conservative shows here in the US used a quote from a member of Franklin Roosevelt's administration of 1932 to 1940 to state that "after 8 years of the New Deal (between 1930 and 1938--which, by the way, the New Deal only started in 1934), we are no closer to reducing unemployment than we were 8 years ago". Only one little problem--first, nobody can prove whether this was ever actually said, and secondly, the statistics for the period prove this to be a total misrepresentation of the facts. Unemployment went from 25% in 1930 (and still over 24% in 1932) to 14% in 1938 and 10% in 1940 (and these numbers didn't even count the work-relief workers--which would have brought the total to below 8% in 1940.) And, of course, by 1945, after WWII, the unemployment rate was down to 1.2%

(3) Many "talking heads" like to tell us how putting money into government jobs is totally wasteful, and how we should instead be giving this money to private firms, who will actually be producing "real" products. So, let me understand--building roads, bridges, and providing security against terrorists is a waste of money--but giving money to companies like Enron, Worldcom, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Citibank, Bear Stearns and even the poorly-run GM and Ford wil save us, since these are obviously part of the efficient private sector.

As long as we are at it, why don't we also invest our Social Security money in the stock market (Bush's plan back in 2005) as many of these same people also suggested? We might even be able to get a private company like Bernie Madoff's investment group to manage the account.

25. Posted by tleb (Full Member 117 posts) 7y

I agree. And yet have CNN's ratings dropped noticeably? Should we expect the government to stand and moderate the media?

The only way is to stop watching it. Even those that watch it in order to find the fallacies and blog about it are worsening the problem. "There is no such thing as bad publicity"

I would argue that perhaps your country has gone a little overboard with "anti-terrorist" spending. The security purchased is a joke in some areas, and a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, but that is a whole different discussion.

I also think that in the long run it would be better if governments didn't prop up failing companies. But that is a very long run view. In the short term, it would result in ever worsening poverty for a longer period. Which in a capitalist healthcare system would directly result in increased physical suffering, crippling and feasibly deaths. So that makes it a very tough line to draw. How much is owed to future generations compared to the current generation? I think the massive deficit in America (and most other countries) is all the answer you need as to the standard practices in regards to that question. And perhaps that is right. Maybe we need to survive as best as we can and say damn the consequences tomorrow. Hopefully future generations will be forced to be wiser and more mature. At least in that manner some aspect of survival of the fittest will make ours a stronger race at some point.

Oh boy. I do try to not get political on public forums.

So uh, whats your favorite drink when on a nice beach?

Post 26 was removed by a moderator
27. Posted by LaurenLolz (Respected Member 226 posts) 7y

Personally, I just graduated from college... so good luck there in finding a job. I've had my stocks for quite a while and cashed them in in Jan. So I got some $$ for them.. not as much as I would have gotten say 2 years ago, but not enough for a house. So I headed to Australia to work and backpack.. hopefully .. but more likely not, when I get back we'll be over the recession.

28. Posted by tleb (Full Member 117 posts) 7y

I don't think this recession is going to be a short term blip.

I'm guessing three years until the numbers start to grow in the right direction again.

29. Posted by GregW (Travel Guru 2635 posts) 7y

My barber postulated a theory yesterday that the recession was actually created by the government to allow them to bring in regulations and reset expectations. He theorized that it was impossible that so many experts didn't see the recession coming. Rather, the experts allowed the recession to come, in fact brought it on through specific actions. Why? In my barber's view, it is to allow the governments of the world to change the behaviour of society to align it more with the resources we have. In this theory, we were consuming resources beyond the means of the world to provide them, so the governments shut down the economy, everyone gets used to living with less, and then when they restart the economy, they do so in such a way that we continue to live with less, thereby solving the energy crisis and global warming and other issues related to population growth.

Personally, I think that government experts aren't really that much smarter than you and I, so they probably didn't see the recession coming and there is no grand government plot to save the world from over-consumption. Therefore, I tend to not believe my barber's assertion. You never really know though, do you?

I do know this. He only charges me £5 for a cut, and that is a good deal.

30. Posted by Calcruzer (Moderator 1992 posts) 7y

Well, I like either margaritas or mai tai's on the beach--and I think I need one or two.

My boss talked to me Friday after work and confirmed that we will be filing bankruptcy. He said I had three more weeks of employment and then would be laid off. He wanted to let me now now since he'll be out of the office next week interviewing for a new job himself. He said he'd try to get a couple of weeks of severance for me--and would provide an excellent reference.

This company I work for had revenues of $240 million two years ago ($60 million each quarter). This went down to $35 million per quarter in June (rate of $140 million per year), and is now down to $10 million per quarter (rate of $40 million per year). So, poof--$200 million in sales disappeared (83% sales drop). And it's like that for our competitors, too--one of them went from $400 million a year to a run rate of $28 million a year during the same period (93% sales drop). They will undoubtedly be filing bankruptcy shortly as well.

Okay, enough "pity" for myself--now is the time to get moving and go get another job.