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Iran learns from USA

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1. Posted by beerman (Respected Member 1631 posts) 7y

It would appear that Iran has learned from the US how to hold, shall we say, an interesting election. After a record turnout, President Ahmadinejad has won in a "landslide" over his moderate rival. Interesting analogy to the last 2 US Presidential elections. Supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi have declared that the entire process was rigged. I saw on the news this morning many of Mousavi's supporters claiming that the election was stolen from them, and that "there's nothing we can do about it". Sounds like many American liberals in the past 8 years.

I just find it interesting that even though people of a country vote, once the final tally is in, there is nothing that the voters can do about the result. I hope that people around the world don't start bashing the Iranian people after this election like they bashed Americans after Bush was twice elected because a nutjob was re-elected. Sorry, just one man's opinion, as I think Ahmadinejad is driving the Middle East further into despair. I don't expect the Middle East to follow American ideals and capitalism, but a little peace in the region would be a nice change.

I would sincerely hope that any commentary on this post not fall into any religious or personal animosity. Let's be positive people!!!! OK, I did call Ahmadinejad a nutjob, but I also call Bush a nutjob, so it's tit-for-tat. I hope for peace in the region.

2. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

Iran is ruled under a system known as Velayat-e Faqih or "Rule by the Supreme Jurist" who is currently Ayakilla Hameneggs.
If the election was rigged, the Iranian people got well faqihed.
If the election was fair, the Iranian people voted to be faqihed.

Another four years of 'Death to <pick any western country>', 'Death to Israel'.
HO HUM

[ Edit: Edited on 13-Jun-2009, at 08:57 by wotthefiqh ]

3. Posted by bgl (Full Member 167 posts) 7y

I have my own personal theory that many times things tend to go from one extreme to the other when there's a change. And change always happens - it's only a question of 'when'. Examples: when communism swiftly disintegrated in eastern Europe 20 years ago. When the Shah of Iran was deposed and replaced by a very different regime. The transition from Bush to Obama. Many, many other examples. I have never been to Iran (well, a couple of hours at Teheran airport doesn't quite qualify...), but it's my understanding that the younger generation in Iran is very much interested in democracy and a more open society as well as closer contacts with the West. It's just a question of 'when' this will happen, but I'm convinced it WILL happen.

4. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting bgl

I have never been to Iran (well, a couple of hours at Teheran airport doesn't quite qualify...), but it's my understanding that the younger generation in Iran is very much interested in democracy and a more open society as well as closer contacts with the West.

They are for sure. They love to party (they now can only do it underground). They love the west. I have been in Iran a few years back and it is an amazing country full of amazing people whom are craving for more "western" luxury (like (non-alcoholic) pubs, disco's, western music on the radio, western magazines, getting lost of the forced-by-law headscarf etc). I hope for them that the regime will be more moderate over time, but I don't see it happen this century.

Quoting beerman

OK, I did call Ahmadinejad a nutjob, but I also call Bush a nutjob, so it's tit-for-tat. I hope for peace in the region.

Ahmadinejad is a nutjob, Bush was a nutjob, Obama promises to be a good one. I also hope for peace in the region.

[ Edit: Edited on 13-Jun-2009, at 11:38 by wouterrr ]

5. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting wotthefiqh

Another four years of 'Death to <pick any western country>', 'Death to Israel'.
HO HUM

Beerman asked for some positivity, can you show us some or will we stay pessimistic (and deceiving) forever wotthefiq;).

[ Edit: Edited on 13-Jun-2009, at 11:31 by wouterrr ]

6. Posted by bgl (Full Member 167 posts) 7y

I believe the positive aspect is that the more extreme and irrational and anti-West that the current Iranian regime is, then when change eventually happens, the new regime will be the complete opposite. As an example, here in the USA, the people (despite re-electing him in 2004) was getting increasingly tired of the Bush administration's various policies that by many, and probably most, were viewed to be against the best interests of the USA, so President Bush in that sense, by serving another 4 years really paved the way for dramatic change because the American people craved it, and thus, elected Obama who was seen as the person who was most likely to implement change. Same thing will happen in Iran, and it's not likely to be a gradual change. Hopefully it will be peaceful.

7. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting bgl

I believe the positive aspect is that the more extreme and irrational and anti-West that the current Iranian regime is, then when change eventually happens, the new regime will be the complete opposite.

Problem is that we haven't seen a "pro-western" government since Mohammad Reza Pahlavi which ended in 1979.

8. Posted by bgl (Full Member 167 posts) 7y

I certainly don't see that as a reason not to believe in positive change. Just look at all the democracies in the countries that used to be behind the Iron curtain. They hadn't experienced democracy in many more years than 30, and some had never experienced true democracy.

9. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting bgl

I certainly don't see that as a reason not to believe in positive change. Just look at all the democracies in the countries that used to be behind the Iron curtain. They hadn't experienced democracy in many more years than 30, and some had never experienced true democracy.

I hope so because the Iranian people deserve much better!

10. Posted by beerman (Respected Member 1631 posts) 7y

Quoting wouterrr

Quoting wotthefiqh

Another four years of 'Death to <pick any western country>', 'Death to Israel'.
HO HUM

Beerman asked for some positivity, can you show us some or will we stay pessimistic (and deceiving) forever wotthefiq;).

Yes I did, and thanks for pointing that out wouterrr......however, wotthefiqh is absolutely right in saying that the rhetoric out of Iran is not likely to change in the next four years. Ahmadinejad is on record many times saying "death to Israel" and "death to the West", which is really the biggest shame of all.

Many here in America suffered through the indignity of the Bush regime, who, in the guise of "protecting America's interests" (money in the pockets of big oil?) completely ignored the man who claimed responsibility for 9/11 (how hard is it to find a 2 meter tall Arab on dialysis?) and declared a war of revenge on the man who tried to kill daddy Bush after the first Gulf War (also a sham). No doubt many muslims say this was a war against them rather than the more radical elements within their faith. And in a sense, it was. The average American went right along with it because they were comfortable with the idea that someone was keeping them "safe" from Islamic terrorism. Rubbish. I am ashamed that America was represented in this way. Besides, Americans have more guns than most nations.....good luck attacking anything out in the country, they'd be riddled with bullets!! But I digress....

The Iranian regime is spreading the worst kind of hatred by saying "Death to Anyone". What did I, for example, ever do to stoke this kind of radicalism? So when a world leader comes out saying "Death to America", my only response is "really......go f*ck yourself".....you don't know me clown". And yet, that's where it ends...I don't come back with "Death to Iran". Live and let live, and if you want me dead, you better be wearing lots of gold jewelry so it's worth my time to peel it off your dead body when you come to kill me.

OK, that may be a bit harsh, but my point is that I feel sorry for the average Iranian citizen who is having to live their life under a regime of hatred. Moderation is possible in politics, and the extreme religious right that wants to convert or kill anyone in their way has no place ruling anything. We can ALL get along, we can ALL coexist in peace. We don't have to agree with each other on everything, but "Death to Anyone" is NOT the answer to anything.

I believe that bgl is correct in saying that change can and will happen.....eventually. Sooner is better than later, so the people of the world do not have to suffer the fear and hatred of fools forever.