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Iran learns from USA

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21. Posted by Redpaddy (Inactive 1004 posts) 7y

Show me a politician that actually cares endlessly about the people - and isn't on the fiddle - and I'll show you a Pope that doesn't wear a funny hat - or a one legged duck that doesn't swim round in circles ! !

22. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 7y

Quoting Redpaddy

Show me a politician that actually cares endlessly about the people - and isn't on the fiddle - and I'll show you a Pope that doesn't wear a funny hat - or a one legged duck that doesn't swim round in circles ! !

I saw a documentary about healthcare awhile ago, and the speaker was advocating that governments get out of the healthcare business--because the decisions they make are short-term ones, designed to get them re-elected. Don't look to governments for long-terms (that is, permanent) solutions about anything. All they want is a bump-free term and a pension.

And the amount of money they waste trying to show us how efficient they are is mind boggling.

23. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 7y

Quoting tway

Don't look to governments for long-terms (that is, permanent) solutions about anything.

Except for the so called "dictators for Life" types. Then it's all about "My long-term permanent solution is 'Longer' than your long-term permanent solution".

You think a 4 year term is gonna get you the Great Pyramids or the Great Wall of China ! Ha !

Or for that matter one of the best health care systems in the world.

[ Edit: Edited on 18-Jun-2009, at 08:09 by Q' ]

24. Posted by magykal1 (Travel Guru 2026 posts) 7y

Hm. I'm sure that many politicians are corrupt, but by no means all - I've had the pleasure of working with our local MP who certainly votes with his conscience in parliament, and is tirelessly dedicated to constituents. I say this despite not supporting the political party to which he belongs. Also, my most recent estate agent was scrupulously honest, and the last builders I hired got the job done in a day.

As for Iran... It will be interesting to see what Khamenei has to say when he addresses the nation on Friday.

25. Posted by Redpaddy (Inactive 1004 posts) 7y

Post#24#magykal1.... Does your MP still have his 20 weeks off a year on full pay and forfeit unwarranted expenses?? Ain't found one yet that works hard for a living.

26. Posted by Buzzcock (Full Member 178 posts) 7y

Quoting bgl

I believe the positive aspect is that the more extreme and irrational and anti-West that the current Iranian regime is, then when change eventually happens, the new regime will be the complete opposite.

The danger with expressing that point of view is that it allows the moderates in Iran to be portrayed as puppets of the West. Remember it was 'we' in the West, before most of us on this forum were born, who overthrew the democratic government of Iran and replaced it with the dictatorial Shah. Most people in Britain - and the USA - may be ignorant about that, but most Iranians certainly aren't.

27. Posted by bgl (Full Member 167 posts) 7y

I don't buy that ("the puppet theory"). The Iranian people, no matter who they voted for, obviously know what's going on in their country. They are not going to be so gullible as to think that all those hundreds of thousands of people who are out demonstrating in the streets are puppets of the west! Governments can try to control the media and censor the news, but in today's electronic world that's not likely to succeed for very long. And chances are it will backfire sooner or later.

[ Edit: Edited on 19-Jun-2009, at 18:35 by bgl ]

28. Posted by magykal1 (Travel Guru 2026 posts) 7y

Quoting Redpaddy

Post#24#magykal1.... Does your MP still have his 20 weeks off a year on full pay and forfeit unwarranted expenses?? Ain't found one yet that works hard for a living.

I'm sure you've fully investigated the work/life balance of the world's MPs, so I'll bow to your clearly superior knowledge.

Khamenei's address turned out to be a disappointment, it would have been nice to hear some concilliation (and not be living in the most evil country in the world!). But it made me think - the western assumption is clearly that the election was rigged, but what if it wasn't and a majority really did vote for Ahmedinejad? The demonstrations might not represent the majority.

29. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting magykal1

Quoting Redpaddy

Post#24#magykal1.... Does your MP still have his 20 weeks off a year on full pay and forfeit unwarranted expenses?? Ain't found one yet that works hard for a living.

I'm sure you've fully investigated the work/life balance of the world's MPs, so I'll bow to your clearly superior knowledge.

It is jealousy, magykal;)

30. Posted by Buzzcock (Full Member 178 posts) 7y

Quoting bgl

I don't buy that ("the puppet theory"). The Iranian people, no matter who they voted for, obviously know what's going on in their country. They are not going to be so gullible as to think that all those hundreds of thousands of people who are out demonstrating in the streets are puppets of the west! Governments can try to control the media and censor the news, but in today's electronic world that's not likely to succeed for very long. And chances are it will backfire sooner or later.

Possibly, but bear in mind that those on the streets are in Tehran, not in provincial towns and villages without access to the mass media; and they are mainly from the university educated professional middle-class, who are likely to have a more liberal and internationalist outlook than the majority of Iranians. To that extent, it is possible that a majority - though not necessarily as large a majority as he is claiming - voted for the conservative incumbent (a point that magykal1 has already made).

My main point however is that if 'the West' gives overt support to the moderate candidate, then the clerics and other conservatives will portray the moderate candidate as being sponsored the USA/EU, which those who support him would not want anyway. Obama I am sure realises this and to his credit has played a diplomatically cool hand. Besides, the Iranians who support the moderate candidate have no wish to suck up to the countries who destroyed their previous democracy or to become 'Americanised' or 'Europeanised', they want just a more liberal society within their own traditions.