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Iran learns from USA

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31. Posted by bgl (Full Member 167 posts) 7y

Buzzcock, I agree with everything you said. For politicians in the West, primarily the UK and the USA to say as little as possible is obviously the best approach.

About the vote itself - we'll probably never find out the truth, but the fact that tens of millions of votes were supposedly handcounted in a matter of hours would seemingly lend itself to speculation about fraud.

32. Posted by Q' (Travel Guru 1987 posts) 7y

Quoting bgl

About the vote itself - we'll probably never find out the truth, but the fact that tens of millions of votes were supposedly handcounted in a matter of hours would seemingly lend itself to speculation about fraud.

Whether there was indeed voting fraud seems not to matter anymore at this point. The situation in Iran is deteriorating by the minute. One of the news channels even had an interview with a "CIA agent" who was saying this is a military coup aimed at the moulahs. Poor poor people.

33. Posted by Redpaddy (Inactive 1004 posts) 7y

Quoting wouterrr

Quoting magykal1

Quoting Redpaddy

Post#24#magykal1.... Does your MP still have his 20 weeks off a year on full pay and forfeit unwarranted expenses?? Ain't found one yet that works hard for a living.

I'm sure you've fully investigated the work/life balance of the world's MPs, so I'll bow to your clearly superior knowledge.

It is jealousy, magykal;)

I suppose it could be jealousy. Getting paid 100k a year and lying to everyone.
When you're caught out and it's revealed that you've broken a dozen rules, you promise to quit - but only in a year's time.
Pah!!

34. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

[quote=wouterrr
You had to think a couple of days to come up with this?
Pavlovian caninity has never been my forte.
I meant everything I said. You clearly are all these things if I remember your posts about muslims in other threads. I don't need to explain any further.
To use a travel analogy, you have to have gone before you can go further.
You are free to put crap on the internet but don't be insulted if the responses are not so nice in your eyes.
Why should I feel insulted[/quote]

Deceiving (the last title you gave me) = deceit = taqiyya.

The concept of "taqiyya" has its origins in Shi’a Islam.
Taqiyya means "disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies from the enemy and the infidel. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking".

Basically the religiously-sanctioned doctrine of lying through your back teeth.

Examples of taqiyya would be -

Tehran has blamed the US and UK for the post-election unrest and

Iran’s hardline newspaper Vatan Emrouz accused BBC correspondent Jon Leyne, who was ordered expelled from Iran, of "hiring a thug and paying him to kill someone (Neda Agha-Soltan) for his documentary."

35. Posted by arif_kool (Travel Guru 1757 posts) 7y

Quoting wotthefiqh

Deceiving (the last title you gave me) = deceit = taqiyya.

The concept of "taqiyya" has its origins in Shi’a Islam.
Taqiyya means "disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies from the enemy and the infidel. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking".

Basically the religiously-sanctioned doctrine of lying through your back teeth.

Linking deceit to a particular religion is disgusting and should be condenmed !!!

The Wikipedia has detailed write up on Taqiyya and the circumstances it should be practised. It is forbidden to practise Taqiyya when it is meant to harm or kill any innocent person.

Quoting from Wiki, "4) Sometimes, Taqiyah may lead to the death of an innocent person. If so, it is not permissible. It is therefore haram (forbidden) to kill another person to save your own life"

36. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting wotthefiqh

The concept of "taqiyya" has its origins in Shi’a Islam.
Taqiyya means "disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies from the enemy and the infidel. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking".

A muslim is not allowed to lie and deceive. Your explanation makes no sense at all and is not based on any proof. So typical from you, I knew you would come with taqiyya, here the proper explanation of the term taqiyya.

Taqiyya originates when the Prophet Muhammed and the early Muslims were spreading and teaching Islam in Mecca, in the very first few years of the message. Since Islamic propagation and conversion was mostly done in private, and since Islam was radically different from the pagan and secular culture of the pre-Islamic Arabs, Muslims were then allowed to hide their faith in fear of persecution or, in some cases, murder, based on their beliefs.The word taqiyyah is Arabic for "fear". Muslims are allowed to hide their faith in fear of persecution and oppressions. It has nothing to do with misleading in order to spread faith. That is a widely accepted misconception. http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/1.html.

Don't keep blaming Islam, blame the people who don't follow it properly.

Don't believe the crap that is written on answering-islam.com.

[ Edit: Edited on 29-Jun-2009, at 08:22 by wouterrr ]

37. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 7y

Have just seen footage of the Tehran mass trial and I'm bitterly disappointed.

Was hoping the mullah dictatorship would continue emulating the Great Satan by -

a) converting 1950's McCarthyism (the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence) into Avhadmadinnerdadism

b) converting the question "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party of the United States?" to "Do you want or have you ever wanted to live in a civil, decent and lawful society?"

Unfortunately they have taken the path of the 1930's Stalinist show trials by -

a) having all the accused guilty sit together on court benches looking suitably contrite (hell, wouldn't you after a coupla weeks in the hands of the religious vigilante Basij)

b) having the guilty come up to a lectern and apologise for questioning the wisdom of the vozhd farsifuhreur

Islamofascism at work

38. Posted by eroltoksoy (Full Member 173 posts) 7y

oh man you opened the pandora's box. but it is such a controversial subject. ( this is a serouis discussion so excuse my English if I make grammar mistakes)

1. As far as I know; USA elections and Iran elections are referring to different types of congresses. so the vote counting and evaluation process are also different

2. We will never be able to find out if the majoritiy really voted for bush for the 2nd time in US or ahmedinejad in Iran. For me these outcomes are fairly possible. I am not bashing Americans or Iranians because they were driven into it.

3.losing side mostly accuses the wininng side with cheat and fraud. Even we did ( I was the member- observer of the the opposition party in latest municipalitiy elections in Turkey) . Eventhough we sued them to the institutional court, we couldnt proove it.

4. Ahmedinejad is maybe nuts , but he has a point about nuclear programme of Iran. Because if USA has it , Israel has it, France has it why cant Iran and other countries are need to be allowed by the others to run such a programe ? Dont get me wrong I am totally against nuclear arming and any militarial investment. But Iran has every right that Us or Israel has about defending itself.

5.The things that happened in Iran after the elections is far more a worse drama than the voting itself. Young people were shot in streets lots of refrmists were torchared, raped, abused and beten to death in the hands of the state authorities. It was worse than Argentinina Fascist Cue's in 1970s. It was shame for all humanity. And still most of the reformist protestor are trialed on court as enemy of the state. Which is mostly punished by execution.

Excuse my English again.

[ Edit: Edited on 04-Sep-2009, at 04:28 by eroltoksoy ]

39. Posted by wouterrr (Travel Guru 3379 posts) 7y

Quoting eroltoksoy

Because if USA has it , Israel has it, France has it why cant Iran and other countries are need to be allowed by the others to run such a programe ? Dont get me wrong I am totally against nuclear arming and any militarial investment. But Iran has every right that Us or Israel has about defending itself.

Indeed, Iran has every right to make an atomic bomb. America has no right to tell Iran to not make such a bomb when they have one themselves, who the hell do they think they are.

[ Edit: Edited on 04-Sep-2009, at 06:15 by wouterrr ]

40. Posted by eroltoksoy (Full Member 173 posts) 7y

Quoting wouterrr

Quoting eroltoksoy

Because if USA has it , Israel has it, France has it why cant Iran and other countries are need to be allowed by the others to run such a programe ? Dont get me wrong I am totally against nuclear arming and any militarial investment. But Iran has every right that Us or Israel has about defending itself.

Indeed, Iran has every right to make an atomic bomb. America has no right to tell Iran to not make such a bomb when they have one themselves, who the hell do they think they are.

yeah same hypocracy of western civilization everytime dealing with east: I can do it because I am white and smart, you cant do it because you are stupid and probably blow it.