Well, totally missed this whole debacle. I'll pretend you're still reading Redpaddy, because quite frankly it would be nice to have you back.
I did indeed remove the post in question after Sander brought it to my attention. I probably should have contacted you directly about it, but Sander had already let me know his explanation to you and I thought it a reasonable one.
On the point of other people insulting you; yes, you should have let us know. I don't really hold back removing posts by long established members as well as new ones. Everyone has a bad day and occasionally lets something slip out that they didn't mean or overstepped a mark of politeness without realising it. Or made a joke that just didn't translate into a written form. I don't generally bother stepping in though until someone has reported a post.
Amongst the regular members, there is a little more leeway given for curt answers or more critical comments, but that is on the assumption that regular members know how to deal with it. Rude comments to new posters on the other hand really does overstep the mark. In any case, I don't know of any members who really hold anything against you at this point in time, so would find it surprising if you had still been receiving criticism.
[ Edit: Edited on 22-Jul-2009, at 12:12 by BedouinLeo ]
I just stumbled upon this, too. Now I see what the fuss is all about!
For my 2 cents' worth, I've been here on TP for about 5 years now. I've seen members come and go--some pleasantly, some in self-inflicted flames. But the moderation on TP has always been consistent and fair. And to be fair, I doubt all moderators see all posts--it's just a logistical impossibility. So I'd say it's best to flag a moderator and discuss what you feel is inappropriate, and let them take measures to rectify the situation.
As Isa has said numerous times, TP is not a democracy. It's run with rules and regulations and moderators and admin follow these religiously. That's what keeps the peace. New members who flog a website are suspicious. Older members who mention 1 product in 2,000 posts are probably trying to help someone out, rather than sell their wares. Insults are not accepted, whether unprovoked or in retaliation. It's just the rules.
I've honestly never seen favouritism or unfair moderation. Everyone is welcome here--provided we all adhere to decency and civility. There's a fine line between slagging and insulting someone, and I think the moderators do a fine job of slicing between the two.
I do hope you stay, Redpaddy--different personalities and opinions are what make TP so great! Just know we're all upheld to the same rules, and the same goodwill.
It really is such ashame that moderators and Admin cant answer straightforward questions. Quite a few have put their opinions forward here and all have avoided the point.
All Iwanted to know was.... Why is it that idiots like Fabyomama, Blinq and Swept Away can bombard me with criticism and insults, I attempt to get advice from the Mod'r's on the issues and get told to stop whining, yet when I put forward a comment about someone sitting in front of their laptop - its flagged. and called deflammatory and insulting.
Seems none of them can give a straight answer to such a straightforward question. Real shame that as I originally said. Just an answer. Seems all the Mod'r's like their little dictator soapboxes - but when it comes to a bitta savvy, they really aint up for it.
T/P is just becoming a forum for bitching and pecking orders. The travel info features are becoming less and less about travel and more about being seen and heard. A few months ago, it was an OK travel forum (I subscribe to many), but now its just fulla bitching along with a bunch of Mod'r's and Admin who snuggle up to each other and pick and choose their likes and dislikes, regardless of valid comments.
I'm sure another Mod'r or Admin will come back with a bucket of tosh avoiding (once again) an answer to my question.
As they say on the Dragon's Den.... Your ideas are fulla hot air and no organisation - and for that reason, I'm out.
All Iwanted to know was.... Why is it that idiots like Fabyomama, Blinq and Swept Away can bombard me with criticism and insults
Both Blinq and Swept Away have been told in no uncertain terms that a lot of their posts were not okay, so they can't. Several of those posts have been been deleted, too, as far as I know. They've both been treated far more harshly than you have been.
I haven't seen any insulting posts by Fabyomama where you didn't give just as good as you got, and those that I have seen were more disagreements on the substance of advice (e.g. "criticism", which is totally allowed) rather than personal attacks (which totally aren't). Now it's a certainty that I haven't seen every single post the both of you have made (probably not even the majority), so chances are I've missed the worst. Again, as we've told you several times in this thread, you'd need to contact an admin about it, not as a vague allegation, but with a direct link to the post in question. (And who knows? Maybe a different moderator has seen posts which were crossing the line, and has sent a private message to Fabyomama about unacceptable behaviour. And maybe Fabyomama replied to that saying something like "my bad - won't do it again" and that was the end of it. This is pure speculation, but y'know, as a rule that is the way such a situation is resolved here on travellerspoint; not by dragging it all out into the open as you've been doing here in this thread. (I want to bet the new member you insulted is completely unaware of it and of the resulting hubbub in this thread. And that's as it should be.))
I attempt to get advice from the Mod'r's on the issues and get told to stop whining, yet when I put forward a comment about someone sitting in front of their laptop - its flagged. and called deflammatory and insulting.
I won't comment on the "stop whining" as I don't know the details (again, if you feel a moderator has treated you unfairly, contact an admin), but on why your specific comment in the laptop thread wasn't okay, let me quote Peter for you:
Amongst the regular members, there is a little more leeway given for curt answers or more critical comments, but that is on the assumption that regular members know how to deal with it. Rude comments to new posters on the other hand really does overstep the mark.
You are a regular member, and were allegedly insulted by a regular member. Besides assuming you know how to deal with it, the initial estimation for any bickering in such a situation is that both parties are equally to blame, since there'll have been a history of disagreements in other threads. No one is going to step in unless a post is flagged or an insult is really way over the line and there's absolutely no positive interpretation possible.
In the situation which gave way to this thread, the person you insulted was a new poster, and he wasn't directing his post to you in any way. The only one to blame for the insult was you. Do you see the difference?
And seriously, that one post of yours shouldn't matter. It was flagged, it was explained to you why we saw it as crossing the line, it was deleted. Think of it as a slap on the wrist: Please don't do it again and no hard feelings from our side. We won't hold it against you.
I seriously don't understand what's so difficult about moving on from that point.
On this forum, these are the rules, this is the way things work. You don't have to agree with it all (I personally remember strongly disagreeing with the strict interpretation of promotional post rules during my first year here, until I got to see how bad the attempts really are), just as long as you'll abide by those rules. If you feel doing that is too onerous, well, as you mention, there's a lot of other travel forums out there which'd be glad to have your advice. We'd be sorry to see you go, as you helped a lot of people, but if that's the consequence of the rules we have and the way we interpret them, we'll accept that.
And just to be really clear, I believe I've answered your question:
You asked "Why can a, b, and c insult me, while I can't insult d?"
I answered: "You can't insult d because he's a new member. Both you and a, b and c are regular members, which makes that situation more complex. For the most part, they can't insult you, and have been told off. Where that hasn't happened, we either believe the insults were still in the grey zone (and since neither party flagged them, we didn't take action), or we didn't see them."
That leaves you saying that you did on one occasion contact a moderator about an insult and were told to "stop whining". Either the moderator was correct, and you were in that instance whining (although I very much suspect the moderator in question didn't use those words), or the moderator didn't oversee the complete situation, or the moderator was treating you unfairly. I'm not that moderator. I don't know. The only information on the situation I have is what you've said about it in this thread. The escalation path for you is to contact an admin. Meanwhile, that situation does not in any way give you leeway to insult a new member.
Maybe I should also answer: "There is no causal relationship between insults being allowed. Each insult is judged individually."
[ Edit: Edited on 23-Jul-2009, at 04:18 by Sander ]
Redpaddy/noanswer/etc.. if you want to have a grown up discussion with people, this forum is a great place for it. But it's impossible to have one if you inactivate yourself after all your posts. What's the point other than wasting everyone's time? Sander has explained in painstaking detail and very maturely why he flagged your post and you chose to ignore all of his answers. That is your choice and no-one else's. If you are not thick skinned enough to take a little criticism, then it's your loss.
As for Blinq and Sweptaway.. wow, those are your examples of people who didn't get a hard time?!
As you are obviously not interested in continuing this discussion, I'm going to close the thread. Feel free to contact me privately if you have anything new to add.