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Shengen Visa Question - A Request For Assistance

Travel Forums Europe Shengen Visa Question - A Request For Assistance

1. Posted by BeautifulSpain (Budding Member 6 posts) 5y

Dear All,

I have read a lot through various forums but as you will realize my problem doesn't fit exactly to any one, that came accross me and from those that partially fits, rather than answers more questions arised in my mind. I hope there is someone out there that can help me.

THE STROY OF THE CASE:

I have double nationality (TURKISH and CANADIAN and have two passports with me)

I have been in Spain for the previous five months. I applied for visa (with my Turkish Passport) and granted TYPE D visa. VALID FROM 19.01.2011 to 21.08.2011 for a duration of 180 DAYS.

My first entry to SPAIN was 26.02.2011.

So if I count 180 DAYS from the date of my first entry it should expire 24.08.2011. However my ticket back home is on the 26th of August. So I will overstay for 2 days.

On the other hand as you will realize the visa is valid until 21.08.2011 which implies that I will overstay 5 days.

I don't know if it matters at all but my FIRST QUESTION is regarding to the validity of the visa. Which day it expires? 180 days after the first entry or the VALID TO date or which ever is minimum?

One possible solution is getting out of Spain for a few days to a non-Schengen country and return back with my CANADIAN passport. My SECOND QUESTION is it valid to do so? Am I entitled for a toursit visa (Schengen TYPE C) at least for that few days.

If it is possible, based on the above math, how long do I have to stay in that country?

Any help from informed members would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks

2. Posted by BeautifulSpain (Budding Member 6 posts) 5y

FOLLOW UP-

I just visited the office of foreigners.

The lady first stated that since the visa is valid for 6 months and I enterred 26.02.2011, my flight on 26.08.2011 won't create a problem since it is in that duration. However, based on what I have read I insisted on double checking the issue on VALID TO she consulted other friends and final verdict is my visa expires for sure 21.08.2011.

Regarding to my second question, that is to say exiting Schengen zone and reenterring with my CANADIAN passport, for some reason they didn't suggest it. By the way, we had a sincere conversation (as you will realize below) however, language was definetly a barrier. They didn't (or couldn't explain) why CANADIAN passport solution is not viable. They stated that police might find it problematic... (Any ideas why is it the cae).

Any way, they suggested me to overstay for five more days and stated that it won't be a problem...That's something funny to hear from the official bodies.

I don't know what to do?

Should I change my ticket and not overstay. Or do as they suggest?

What do you think would happen if the border police realizes that I have overstayed five more days? What's the fine for that? In such a case, do you think I would be banned from Schengen indefinitely?

Thanks.

3. Posted by kichikacha (Respected Member 328 posts) 5y

Most countries' customs will not penalize or fine you for a few day overstay, in general they just verbally warn you. In case you overstay for several months, they will surely issue a monetary fine and it may affect your future applications. Most severe penalties such as deportation usually happen if you are caught on overstaying for a long period of time (over a few months).

So, you don't have to worry about a few day overstay - as you will still be within the approximate time frame granted by your visa.

Leaving the country with a different passport is indeed not a good idea as your entry was registered and if you leave your country with another document, on paper you are not exiting the country - i.e. in their records it will show that you continue staying in the country...

4. Posted by morro (Full Member 102 posts) 5y

I don't see any issue with exiting the Schengen Area with you Turkish passport and re-entering with your Canadian passport. You don't even need a visa if you have a Canadian passport, you are automatically granted 90 days.

5. Posted by BeautifulSpain (Budding Member 6 posts) 5y

Thanks a lot for both of your answers!

Regarding to kichikacha's answer I will leave Spain with the Turkish Passport (The documentation I used to enter the country). Later I will enter and leave Morocco with Canadian. Later I will reenter Spain with Canadian. Therefore in terms of checks and balances there won't be a problem BUT...

Regarding to morro's answer, I came accross to a document in Spanish Embassy (Ottawa) web site which states that

You are entitled for 90 days in 180 (if you are a Canadian) only if:

g. Not having stayed in Spanish territory for a total of 90 days in the
last 6 months, counting from the date of last entry (art. 20.1 Schengen,
and art. 30 Law).

which apparently is not my case (I stayed already five months). That is to say it seems that they closed the loop hole by issuing a visa to a person but not to a passport. And it seems that I have already granted one!

On the other hand there seems to be a gap. Because it states "Spanish Territories". (Actually I doubt it, don't you think it should have been any Schengen Area). Any way, I will look for the French website and see if they state "France" as well. If it is the case, From Morocco I can easily fly to Paris and then reenter Spain with the Schengen granted by the French customs (Which I doubt will work, as I stated earlier)

This would be one of the options. Another one is overstaying as kichikacha and the Spanish officers stated (check my earlier posts) and cross the fingers, pray for an oficer who would turn a blind eye to my situation.

Or (which seems to be the most likely option) I will change my flight...

The thing is there is no web site which states the fines/penalties applicable to overstaying in Schengen. As far as I can see, each country has a different policy and depending on the immigration officer different regulations as well. It is hard to believe that, but that's what I understood from my readings.

Any one who would like to provide further points are most welcomed. As you can see my search for information is not over yet.

Thanks in advance.

6. Posted by morro (Full Member 102 posts) 5y

This is what I have heard regarding the penalties if you overstay: The officers will interrogate you and make you miss your flight and force you to buy a new ticket. You will also cop a fine and will be barred from the Schengen Area for a certain period of time. I think it is five years.

I know when I left Rome last year, my passport wasn't scanned or checked as I left to go to Egypt. The guy just opened up a random page and stamped it. In Berlin, my passport was thoroughly checked as I was leaving to go to Croatia. It really depends on the country.

Once again, I think you will be fine with the Canadian Passport. How are the Spanish Authorities to know that you were just in their country on a Turkish Passport? The passports aren't linked in anyway. Just don't be stupid enough to show them the Turkish passport. The worst that can happen is you will be denied entry and you can just fly back home.

7. Posted by BeautifulSpain (Budding Member 6 posts) 5y

Dear Morro,

Thanks once again.

Actually, even though the passports may not be linked, same name, same birthplace and same birthday it is not hard to link them in an existing database.

On the other hand flying home from Morocco won't be an option since after living six months in Spain I have plenty of things that I should carry back home which won't be easy to take to Morocco with me (not to mention my cat that I brought here...). I also have further things to do in Spain...

Any way. It seems I am inclined to change the ticket to get rid of the risk. I can fully see that the rule is out there and noone can change the rule (I am thankful to those who support that five days is a minor problem which I shouldn't care -I also think like that!-, but it seems that the rule is the rule).

Overstaying has a risk and it's upto the person to take the risk or not. 5 years of ban for 5 days of overstaying is plenty. If it was only the fine I would pay it willingly. I guess I will need to enter Schengen zone in near future unfortunately...

Thanks once again to you and kichikacha and others as well.

Hope the best.