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A mystery wrapped in an enigma...

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31. Posted by Wocca (Inactive 3745 posts) 11y

Quoting samsara2

Would you say that you are a religous person or a spiritual person Wocca?

My parents split up before I was born.I spent the first seven years of my life in children's church homes: Church of England & Presbyterian. ( At the beginning of high school, I also did 6 months in a Salvation Army boys' home).There were different social values / standards in those days. Perhaps, you've heard stories in the media about how strict some these homes were. I didn't start speaking until I was three. There was no need for it. I would have been happy to have been deaf.
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I excelled at school, because through study & learning, my mind was able and allowed to question what I did not understand. I attended speech therapy classes until I was 11 years old. I did not have any speech defect; just undeveloped speech. I went onto become the dux and the vice-captain of the school. I was coached in speech writing and delivery for any official ceremonies at the school.
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My mother eventually got my older brother, sister & I out of homes when one month before I turned seven (7). She managed to get a government housing commission flat and an invalid pension. She ran up a lot of debt to buy beds and the like for us. We were dirt poor. Our mother suffered mainly from loneliness & depression. She could never sleep for more than 4 hours. She had four ulcer operations to the stomach, a collapsed lung, emphysema, epilepsy, poor eyesight,bad hearing, thyroid, and whatever else. I quickly understood what compassion was, through the absence of it in our lives.I left home at age 14.
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Is that religious or spiritual?
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A number of years later, I was the first of her children to admit our mother into a psychiatric hospital. The psychiatrist diagnosed her as having premature senility or a mental block. He couldn't tell which it was until he got her off all the prescribed medication she'd been on for years. She had a very nasty drug habit. She died at age 55, weighing 5 stone. When I was a child, my mother once pitifully said to me, " I (she) can't believe God, because how could He let someone suffer so much ?". Her words.
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After she died, I wrote the epitaph for her plaque:
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"The suffering is over, but the pain lives on for those who remember our everloving mother"
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I always took an interest in religion. I studied what I could of the 4 great world religions (Christianity, Budhhism, Islam, & Hinduism). There are many things I don't understand. They are much greater I am.
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I prefer to approach religion from a pjilosophical rather than from a theological perspective. Coming from a Christian society, I have been influenced that way. I'm comfortable with that. Nevertheless, I have also been strong influenced by Buddhist philsophy, especially the concepts of enlightenment. Life is a learning experience.
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As for spirituality, I've glimpsed more than once into my subconscious mind, and my soul...but in this life, I'm human

32. Posted by areinstein (Travel Guru 2788 posts) 11y

Hey Warren, I dont mean to sound insensitive but...I hope you arent pulling our leg here. You are either having fun with us or you have overcome much in your life making you so much more interesting and mysterious than before. So which is it? How do you answer that? And please, like tway said...try not to sound like a Chinese proverb when you answer hahaha...all the best to you

33. Posted by tway (Travel Guru 7273 posts) 11y

Anne - I was asking myself the same thing...

Warren, you're either giving us a taste of our own medicine (spoon-feeding our undying curiosity) or else, as Anne said, you have overcome more than anyone should have to live through in a lifetime. I don't mean to doubt your intentions or question your honesty - it all just seems too bad to be true..

34. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 11y

I've chosen to play spectator with this one today and I have found it interesting... Sorry Anne and Tina, but you've gotten what you asked for and then you question the responses. In many a thread, comments are made about how open and honest everyone is about themselves. It looks as though, in this thread, the spectator has become the real participant (truthful or not) and that' still not acceptable enough.

Consider the ramifications of the answers not being reality:

1) Will you ever answer Wocca's questions honestly again?
2) Obviously, he's someone you respect enough to engage honestly in his threads - what happens there?
3) Since friendships seemed to have developed here - what would be the purpose of shredding his own credibility?

I'm not saying that Wocca has told the truth here. I don't know. But, given what I have seen of his other responses throughout, I see no point in fabrication. It would seem to be counter-productive in the end. I may be wrong. But, at this point in time, until prove differently, there's no reason to questions the responses you asked for originally.

As for bad things, I take it from your replies, you have not had to experience many of them. More power to you and I hope that will follow you through life. Some of us haven't been that lucky and maybe those bad things have just made us stronger people in the end.

Sorry guys - couldn't help myself...

And Wocca, I know you don't need a knightess in shining armor. But, I digress.

35. Posted by areinstein (Travel Guru 2788 posts) 11y

Isa, I was wondering why you werent putting your two senses into this forum earlier (you were playing spectator on this one as you mentioned). I do think that you have had a better chance to enjoy more of Warren's insights through previous threads, definitely more so than I have and possibly tway.

I can only speak for myself, but being a part of this forum has been somewhat therapeutic for me as I am not accustomed to share much of my life with anyone, I have a lot of friends but I have a problem getting attached to people. You could say that I've become attached to "our little group" here.

There is no question that Wocca's threads have touched my heart on one way or the other especially on this one where I see someone pouring his heart out to basically total strangers. As he mentioned before, he tends to stand out from the rest and that's why I took notice of him and wanted to learn more about him. People like him are a magnet for interesting talk, something very hard to find particularly where I live...people in South Florida live their lives surrounded by shallowness and the desire to have more and more. Wocca, to me, is a breath of fresh air but I have become so accustomed to his philosophical and Socratarian ways that I am taken aback to see the "real" side, the hard cold thruth about someone's life. I certainly appreciate his honesty and candor whether here or another forum. Maybe it was insensitive of me to question him while all the while we have been wanting to know more about him but we are after all, just like those guys you date for the first time, in the "getting to know each other" stage.

I may have the chance to meet Warren in April if things work out so the last thing that I would want is offend his motives or portray my insensibility through my questioning. So to answer your questions:

1) Yes, my answers have been always sincere and honest...I have no reason to embellish my attributes or shortcomings for the viewing pleasure of the members. What would be the point of forming honest relationships?

2) I dont believe the respect has been lost but that will be for Wocca to decide.

3) Wocca has a very subtle and political way to put ppl in their place. I feel that as clever as he is, he will not find that "shredding his credibility" has the ultimate intent. Similarly, if he wants to Wocca'd me out, I welcome and embrace any blow that may come my way.

As for bad things, yes, my childhood was probably better than most, actually, my childhood was everything a child could ever ask for. No complaints there but I wouldnt apologize for it either. On the contrary, I am thankful and it has helped me developed a sense of compassion for those that didnt and dont have what I did.

But it was my own choosing and decision that at 16 I would leave home with nothing but a plane ticket to New York and $1000 in my pocket. My parents let me go because I was too rebelious and they figured I would come back once I realized life would be rough without them. I never did and I had my own reasons at the time. That cost me to live on the streets for more time than I cared for when I ran out of money, it cost me to settle on a bad relationship where I was treated as a third class citizen and took a tremendous amount of verbal and physical abuse that took everything out of me and killed my spirit in the process. I was young, I was stupid but I am glad I went through that bad period in my life. Typical cliche, it has made me a better and stronger person too. In a way, it was my decision and it was my choice to come to the US, so some could say I asked for it, but it was nonetheless rough and hard. What I have been able to do with my life now has been the master creation of my own decisions and as a result of my own personal choices. I dont consider that random luck, if good things continue to happen in my life, it will be because I have made them happen.

Well, I think this got longer than I wanted but I felt I had to give you a timely and appropriate response to my potentially indiscrete posting, maybe??. Now it is time to go home, work was rough today but the weekend is almost here. Talk to you tomorrow!

36. Posted by Wocca (Inactive 3745 posts) 11y

WORKING CLASS HERO
John Lennon

As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me

37. Posted by Wocca (Inactive 3745 posts) 11y

Quoting areinstein

Wocca, to me, is a breath of fresh air but I have become so accustomed to his philosophical and Socratarian ways that I am taken aback to see the "real" side, the hard cold thruth about someone's life. I certainly appreciate his honesty and candor whether here or another forum .... I may have the chance to meet Warren in April if things work out ..."

You're still gorgeous, Anne

38. Posted by samsara_ (Travel Guru 5353 posts) 11y

I'll be honest Wocca and say that I flirted with the same thoughts as Anne & Tway (briefly) but thats because I'm always suspicious and always assume that ppl are up to something.
Also, having come through a fair amount of sh*t myself (well, who hasnt I suppose ), I couldnt conceive of divulging so much personal information. In truth, I admire your candour. It's refreshing in a world where we have all become so cagey/protective/afraid of admitting our weaknesses and failures.

I'm a bit like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights in the face of someone else's baggage - I have a great desire to solve it/make it easier/say the right thing, but I usually fall far short. So I wont pass comment on your situation other than to say thanks for answering the questions so comprehensively.

(and I'm still a bit suspicious;) )

I'm KIDDING, i'm kidding....

39. Posted by Wocca (Inactive 3745 posts) 11y

Quoting tway

... or "The Official Wocca Thread".
Wocca gets our minds turning and our fingers typing with his well-thought-out threads. But what's he really like? Maybe now we can find out! ;) How about we dedicate this thread to all those questions we've wanted to/been trying to ask Wocca? It's worth a try...

Wocca, here is your one and only rule:

  • answer every question as honestly as possible and without sounding like a Chinese proverb

Anyone care to start?

Now ... doesn't anyone want to look at Wocca's pictures of China?
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http://community.travelchinaguide.com/m.asp?u=wocca

40. Posted by Isadora (Travel Guru 13926 posts) 11y

Quoting areinstein

I can only speak for myself, but being a part of this forum has been somewhat therapeutic for me as I am not accustomed to share much of my life with anyone, I have a lot of friends but I have a problem getting attached to people. You could say that I've become attached to "our little group" here.

Talk to you tomorrow!

I didn't mean to "step on any toes" yesterday and I didn't mean for my remarks to come across in an angry way. They were purely observation and I'm glad you're still talking to me! I also did not plan t have my comments about bad things sound as defensive as it does - now that I have gone back and read what I wrote there. Unlike Wocca, most bad things in my life came about from my own decisions or actions - no regrets, just lessons learned. (Never apologize for having good things in your life. Overall, mine's been good despite my occasional stupidity.)

I agree with you whole-heartedly with the therapeutic aspects of this forum and the attachments being formed. I'm thoroughly enjoying the interaction and it's a way of making some new friends without leaving my house. I have a very small group of close friends who mean much to me. The superficial ones have fallen by the wayside on their own accord. Only 2 people really know why I am who I am and the rest don't ask.

Anyway, I look forward to more threads and discussions and getting to know you guys better! Thanks for the honesty too.

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